Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[freetrader]

What is equally worrying is that he directs all code changes to his private site instead of somewhere industry interested people might actually see it.

@Tom Zander , I'm going to disagree on this one DESPITE the fact that I don't particular rave about Phabricator as a tool either.

But you're insinuating that Amaury somehow restricts access to the code changes on the development site, which is not the case at all.

ABC prominently displays a link to the dev site [1], and we actively encourage people who are interested to sign up and participate. There is no membership requirement other than to register an account for free.

I've invited several people to participate there, and you are also a member of the site giving you access to all the code, reviews, issues etc. Anyone can clone the active development repo, whose head is only pushed to Github when there's a release.

I'm really not sure what it is that you think industry interested people might miss in terms of access to ABC's code changes.

[1] https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/blob/master/README.md

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

Let me weight in in the EDA discussion.

As Tom and Eric I was angry reading the discussion about how great dgenr8t's proposal is in the maling list, just to see ABC announce that they merge Amaury's proposal, without further discussion. This is definitely not the way things should happen, and if this becomes an habit of Bitcoin Cash, I will be out. Everybody should be aware that this was a bad incident and that this must not repeat in the future.

However, I'm willing to accept it this time. I agree with deadalnix, that the proposal has been open for some time, and there simply was not enough time left to further the discussion to match the time of the fork. Also, I have never been a fan of "function follows form", and as long as I want a better EDA (I terribly want it!), and as long as no other developer from Classic, XT and Unlimited protests against Amaury's algorithm for technical reasons, I'm ok with tolerating the bad form of the decision making process for a better function.

Finally, there might be some truth in it that Bitcoin Cash right now is more centralized than Bitcoin Core. If the miners decide to use ABC's algorithm, there is not much we can do. We can enforce a split and hope that at least some miner joins it. But currently there is no market demand for a Bitcoin Cash Classic (except some Core trolls buying for fun) ...

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm also ready to give Amaury the benefit of the doubt. Yes, his communication style has some potential to get optimized. But to claim that he'll now always act like that is a bit of an early judgment. If ABC decided that they will let the proposals evaluate by two different organisations and then make the decision on the basis of their recommendation, then it's not Amaury's decision.

 

[Tom Zander]

you're insinuating that Amaury somehow restricts access to the code changes on the development site, which is not the case at all.
{snip}
I'm really not sure what it is that you think industry interested people might miss in terms of access to ABC's code changes.

Either I didn't explain myself well, or its the loss of context. The context is that this was about finding consensus changes before they are decided. When I made the clear and true statement that it had not been announced beforehand, the reply was to point out I could just have found the spec as code in the repo...

To me this whole thing feels like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy;

“But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months.”
“Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them had you? I mean like actually telling anybody or anything.”
“But the plans were on display . . .”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a torch.”
“Ah, well the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard.”​

 

[solex]

First time I have seen over $100m on the bid side at Bitstamp and it coincides with a spike over $7000.
LOTS of buyers. That segwit1x is going to receive untold pressure when all these new users actually start to send transactions.

 

[theZerg]

@solex you weren't kidding when you said "spike"! I wonder what whale got out...

 

[singularity]

@theZerg What are your thoughts on the BFP process I have proposed?

https://github.com/singularity87/BFP/blob/Updates/README.md

 

[Bagatell]

It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard.

lol

 

[Windowly]

On a different note, a couple scammers are scamming this forum, posting hundreds of Korean spam. I've been trying to report them, but they're at least three users/bots and they're keeping on posting.

 

[singularity]

Yes I have been trying to report them too but it is not possible to keep up with.

 

[Bagatell]

If you're struggling with the spam make sure to ignore them.

 

[jbreher]

Cherry blossom season in Japan is truly stunning,

Did the festival in Ueno Park two years ago. Great time indeed.

Cracked me up how businesses and families alike cordoned off their own little section of tarmac, and proceeded to sit and drink the evening away.
[doublepost=1509648828][/doublepost]

how many more days are you willing to endure this EDA crap?

I dunno... indefinitely? It has not been much of a hindrance to me.

What pain -- exactly -- has it caused you?

 

[singularity]

Yoyogi Park in Harajuku is lovely as well. Probably the most stunning I went to was Shinjuku Gyoen National Garden. No drinking allowed in this park though as you have to go through security, but it is lovely for a picnic and a stroll.

 

[jbreher]

But to claim that he'll now always act like that is a bit of an early judgment.

The die has been cast, the pattern has been set, the behavior has been reinforced. Either there are repercussions, or this will be the expectation for the future. Just the way human behavior works.

As I said, I'll be moving off ABC. And I hope that others will join me in sending this message.

I don't mean to disparage the fine work that deadalnix has done, but this -- for me -- was beyond the pale.

 

[albin]

In contentious times like this can we at least all come together with a "Fuck Ripple", and "don't tell the door hit you on the way out down to #4 on coinmarketcap!"??

 

[Bloomie]

On a different note, a couple scammers are scamming this forum, posting hundreds of Korean spam. I've been trying to report them, but they're at least three users/bots and they're keeping on posting.

Yes I have been trying to report them too but it is not possible to keep up with.

Thanks, guys. If it's just a few spam messages, use the report function, and I'll usually get to them within a day.

If it's a large bot attack like the one we had this morning, you can send me a PM and I'll prioritize it.

 

[theZerg]

@theZerg What are your thoughts on the BFP process I have proposed?

https://github.com/singularity87/BFP/blob/Updates/README.md

I like it. I would like to see guidelines about how a well behaved client proposes a hard fork change. This many days for feedback. This many days of frozen code, etc. Right now, we had a tentative HF in mid Nov. But with changes going in days ago and no spec (until today I think) and no language neutral test suite (AFAIK) with 2 weeks to go I'm worried about wallet compliance.
[doublepost=1509661912,1509661301][/doublepost]

The die has been cast, the pattern has been set, the behavior has been reinforced. Either there are repercussions, or this will be the expectation for the future. Just the way human behavior works.

As I said, I'll be moving off ABC. And I hope that others will join me in sending this message.

I don't mean to disparage the fine work that deadalnix has done, but this -- for me -- was beyond the pale.

The initial fork had last minute changes unilaterally made that caused interop issues between ABC and Unlimited. This new hard fork is a continuation of the same behavior.

If you want a multi-client coin, don't let any one client have a majority. Esp. avoid a client with no defined internal process to block the committing dev in the case of controversy.

IDK but I believe that miners will take note of full node counts and adjust their mining clients accordingly.

 

[go1111111]

One good thing about the Seg2x vs Core fork is that because Core is apparently winning market cap war on the bitfinex futures markets, I'm seeing a lot of Core supporters embracing the market as a legitimate way to prove support.

My guess is that if you asked them before there was any market info supporting their position, they might have said market prices are too easily manipulable by big businesses. Now they're finally starting to believe that markets are hard to manipulate, which brings them closer to embracing market governance.

 

[Zarathustra]

Without Amaury's / freetrader's ABC, there wouldn't exist a non-shitwit Bitcoin. BU and Classic would be segwit implementations. Without ABC, there wouldn't exist a DAA fork in time. There was nearly no effort to coordinate a decision, afaik.
Yes, lacking communication is bad. Banning lead developers of competing implementations from your slack channel is even more bad. If that indeed happened, it's a shame.

 

[Erik Beijnoff]

I can't say I know exactly what was happening behind the scene because I wasn't deeply involved, but I think that perspective is a bit of history revisionism. Afaik there were several efforts going on from the major implementations, all working towards the same goal. I'm sure a developer or two here have more insights, if they want to share.