Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
Looks to me like this MillionBitcoinCash things is a growing scam or at least a reputational attack on Bitcoin Cash fork.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/post98998.html#p98998

I hate to give this any publicity, but at the same time this looks to be on a bigger scale and could potentially cause damage to users and image if it is not clearly called out for its dodgy practices.

No published checksums anywhere for the binaries, and divergent binaries on .com and .org site. Both Windows version flagged by VirusTotal (possible false detection though - I'm not in a position to get deeper confirmation on whether it's really a trojan).

However, the published code bears no relation to the claimed nature of the binaries (which are supposed to be forks of ABC and Classic, but the github code isn't either, it's something completely different and doesn't meet the FAQ description of the coin at all).

So something is very wrong. They are also directly ripping off the logos of various clients and organizations and even give Tom Zander's email as a contact point.
And of course the single-letter domain name changes, and using blockdozer.org for maximum confusion with blockdozer.com (the real Bitcoin Cash explorer).

Added : https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7171ow/psa_scam_warning_millionbitcoincash_mbch_claimed/
 
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Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
I want to see Bitcoin Cash succeed as much as anyone else, but it's premature to get excited about the exchange rate.

The price now is basically the exact same place it was when trading began. Celebrate when you see sustained gains against Bitcoin Core.
I'm very excited about the exchange rate. I didn't expect that a 'rushed' spinoff of 2 users (@deadalnix and @freetrader) will get a market cap of 8 billion in the very first days and weeks of its existence. Since I converted at an average price of 0.09, I'm even super excited.

That's how it goes:

The works of genius cannot be fully enjoyed except by those who are themselves of the privileged order. The first recognition of them, however, when they exist without authority to support them, demands considerable superiority of mind.

When the reader takes all this into consideration, he should be surprised, not that great work is so late in winning reputation, but that it wins it at all. And as a matter of fact, fame comes only by a slow and complex process:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-997#post-41082
 
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79b79aa8

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2015
1,031
3,440
a 'rushed' spinoff
it was not rushed. @freetrader started making plans for a Minimum Viable Fork at least one year before august 1 2017, as the writing was on the wall. by january 2017 extensive testing had been done and reported. it was the reason one could essentially ignore the Segregated Witness acrimony, stay cool and hold hard. the HF (the exodus block) was *forced* by SW activation, but this is distinct from it being rushed.

a round of applause.
 
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awemany

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2015
1,387
5,054
Someone quipped on reddit somewhere that he looks forward to see the 1x Core shitcoin being pulverized by hashpower aligned with the 2x chain.

Let me thus introduce, in proactive and preventative true "Dragon's den" manner the appropriate name for the Core 1x shitcoin that will transpire out of the upcoming 2x hardfork:

Bitcoin Ash.

Oh and: I think the time to back down from the 2x part passed for the miners. If they do this now (in significant numbers), they'll seriously fuck with the price.
 

yrral86

Active Member
Sep 4, 2015
148
271
Miners should really consider dropping segwit 2x in favor of segwit 8x.

By forking from btc, the price will pump to price in the post-fork combined value and there will be no way to know the value of each side until after the split. Miners will have to take a speculative or ideological position. If they announced they would fork from bch, the bchbtc market would give them a clue whether the market prefers segwit + 1mb or segwit + 8mb. Then they can go into the split on the side that best serves the market. Of course, I would prefer a hard fork implementation of segwit so as to preserve bch without it.
 

Roger_Murdock

Active Member
Dec 17, 2015
223
1,453
Had a pretty bizarre conversation with Adam Back a few days ago in which he tried to point to widely-used soft limits on block size to argue that blocks "have effectively been nearly-instantly 'full' for many years." I tried to explain how absolutely absurd this was, pointing out that:

The "soft limits" you're referring to and the constraining "consensus-rule"-style 1-MB block size limit are completely different animals. The former isn't a real "limit" at all as it's a trivial matter for an individual miner to adjust. The context for this discussion is the claim that if we were to increase the latter limit (which is an actual limit as miners that violate it will have their blocks orphaned by the rest of the network), that blocks would immediately "fill up." That is an absurd and completely anti-empirical claim. Indeed, the fact that many miners allowed their soft limits to be bumped into before increasing them is, if anything, evidence against the claim that miners would immediately produce "full" blocks if the actual network limit were increased (because it represents miners voluntarily limiting the size of their blocks).
But I eventually gave up trying to get through to him.

/u/medieval_llama had a great quote on reddit that I thought summarized a lot of key governance ideas very succinctly:

"Bitcoin is anarchy. Miners vote with hashrate, users vote with their money, merchants vote by what currencies they accept. Consensus is an emergent property of this, not a requirement."

I also thought he did a nice job of summarizing what the Core concern trolling about "strong replay protection" is really about:


Re: this whole issue of "replay protection," I feel increasingly convinced of the following:

I think it's the responsibility of those choosing to create a minority spinoff by refusing to follow the most-PoW chain to add strong replay protection by hard-forking to a new mandatory transaction format. So I do think if the mining majority want to make the planned 2X upgrade a success, they should be prepared to 51% attack and destroy a SegWit1X chain that refuses to at least implement strong replay protection (if not also change its PoW). It's not clear how viable a minority hashrate SegWit1X chain would be without hard forking in an EDA given the brutal economics of the "difficulty death spiral." But in any event, I think 2X supporters should commit to killing off such a chain (forcing it to hard fork) to render any bogus argument that it represents the "real" / "original" Bitcoin (and is thus somehow entitled to the "Bitcoin" / "BTC" name and ticker) even more untenable than it would already be. To be clear, I'm totally fine with people deciding to maintain a minority hashrate SegWit1x chain starting from a particular UTXO snapshot. (I don't see a whole lot of utility in such a thing, but different strokes for different folks.) But if they don't want their chain to be viewed as hostile, they need to go about it in a way that minimizes disruption to the actual Bitcoin chain.​

I'd also note that simply voicing a credible threat to destroy a non-hardforking 1-MB chain could potentially make such an attack unnecessary by increasing the potency of the "difficulty death spiral" dynamic.

 

albin

Active Member
Nov 8, 2015
931
4,008
For real not even being flippant here... is small blockery like a magnet for borderline personality type people? There's no middle ground, everyone is either a heroic champion of decentralization or the devil incarnate, and the moment anybody disagrees one iota w/ the ideal, he's immediately the devil regardless of his previous record.

Then as things devolve it's all "I fucking hate you, fork off already"... then you take them at their word and actually leave, and it's "I hate you for leaving".

I've had this girlfriend in my 20's!
 

awemany

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2015
1,387
5,054
@albin: Oh yeah, that girlfriend. I know exactly what you're talking about ...

Borderliners love to make false accusations. Along those lines, and call me an asshole now, @jonny1000 , but the part about the sound clip supposedly getting deleted and having to be moved around in your submission:

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that is a false flag thing.

I have seen too much to say anything polite here anymore.

It is not a secret that Jihan seems fed up with many from and around Core.
 
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satoshis_sockpuppet

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
776
3,312
it was not rushed. @freetrader started making plans for a Minimum Viable Fork at least one year before august 1 2017, as the writing was on the wall.
And even before that, @rocks started his spinoff work IIRC.

"Bitcoin is anarchy. Miners vote with hashrate, users vote with their money, merchants vote by what currencies they accept. Consensus is an emergent property of this, not a requirement."
This is a truly beautiful statement. This is the stuff these "bitcoin philosophers" don't understand with their many words. Antpool, viabtc and bitcoin.com should put this in their coinbase message. Or it should be a tattoo on Gregs back so every core supporter has to read it when they kiss his ass, until they understand it.

but the part about the sound clip supposedly getting deleted and having to be moved around in your submission
What's this about?
 

awemany

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2015
1,387
5,054
@satoshis_sockpuppet: It is in the later part of jonny1000's submission to /r/Bitcoin.

Rereading the Lightning paper, the confrontation, ignorance and non-alignedness of the authors with Bitcoin's incentive system stares you right in the face if you read carefully, from
https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf:

[...] Bitcoin needs to resolve the issue of block
size centralization effects; large blocks implicitly create trusted custodians
and significantly higher fees.
That's all you need. As a miner you are profit maximizing. Their idea of an LN isn't what you are looking for. They outright say so. They directly say that that they want to take your fees away.

But fees are Bitcoin's miner income. Without miner income, Bitcoin will be nothing. This is a direct admission of the goal to kill, or at least directly work against Bitcoin.
 
Had a pretty bizarre conversation with Adam Back a few days ago in which he tried to point to widely-used soft limits on block size to argue that blocks "have effectively been nearly-instantly 'full' for many years."
I share this experience. I had hundreds of discussions with people claiming that blockspace must be limited, because there is infinite demand for it. I explained over and over that neither bitcoin's historiy nor altcoins do confirm this; that every single available empirical evidence falsifies this assumption.

But there has never been an answer to this. The consistency with which these people repeat false claims, even after being corrected, can be an indicator that we face a troll and astroturfing campaign and discuss with people which do not act like scientists, journalists, truth-seekers or otherwise participants in a discussion, but which act like lawyers: defending their own position, no matter what damage they do with reality.
[doublepost=1505991913][/doublepost]
For real not even being flippant here... is small blockery like a magnet for borderline personality type people? There's no middle ground, everyone is either a heroic champion of decentralization or the devil incarnate, and the moment anybody disagrees one iota w/ the ideal, he's immediately the devil regardless of his previous record.

Then as things devolve it's all "I fucking hate you, fork off already"... then you take them at their word and actually leave, and it's "I hate you for leaving".

I've had this girlfriend in my 20's!
yes. Unfortunately this perspective on the world is part of why many people started to love Bitcoin.