Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
The market always works :)

What I mean is the market isn't limited to just Bitcoin itself. This is not a competition between small blocks versus big blocks. It's a competition between Bitcoin and Ethereum, and all other cryptos. And all other cryptos are competing against other legacy or innovative solutions.

And if big blocks cannot gain the upper hand, then I think Bitcoin will lose the competition. We cannot invoke the market to contend that Bitcoin will win whatever happens. I have faith in the market and that's why I start to envision that Bitcoin may not win the race.

I don't think the age of the ledger is important, I think the network effect is the most important. That's something that might be lost. If one year from now we haven't fork yet, then I think it will be over for Bitcoin.
I think @BldSwtTrs has a point, there is a lot of talk here of how the market will solve these problems, and how market forces will triumph in the end, but that could also very well mean that the way that the market routes around blockstream could very well be through an alternative cryptocurrency.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@bluemoon
Sounds pretty short-sighted for a miner to let Bitcoin die for a soon-to-be PoS coin..
Well, we've seen Miners support small blocks in a short sighted attempt to increase profit avoid controversy for a soon-to-be diminished market share of bitcoin. So not much president there for log term vision from majority of miners.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@bluemoon @Christoph Bergmann - so glad I was banned again, it was very taxing engaging with the lemmings. - it's not easy to be calm if you are being attacked.

I stopped referring to BU - I called it decentralized decision making on block size.


we have to up our game, insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results. Bitcoin supporters are now in the minority, I'm glad this has happened now before the tyranny of the majority put their ignorant understanding above those of the miners who have to show PoW to have a say in enforcing "needed" rules.

I've concluded most of those trolls are not actually bitcoiners, the bitcoin community is not divided, it's under attack by those who don't understand how bitcoin was designed to work or those who don't want it to succeed.
 
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albin

Active Member
Nov 8, 2015
931
4,008
@Christoph Bergmann

Tone Vays has the ultimate Get-out-of-jail-free card in any and all conversations. The moment anything he doesn't have the competence to talk about comes up, he gets to appeal to not being technical, assert that everybody who knows anything agrees with him, and he wins automatically by completely shutting down the possibility of even having a conversation.
 

lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
Szabo has lost it.


I'd like to know what metrics he's using to come to this conclusion?

It would seem pretty obvious that; greater Tx volume with a minimum fee, leads to greater incentive to mine, leading to increased difficulty and greater network security? Is this not the very foundation of Bitcoin's incentive system?

What am I missing?

Has he fallen for the slippery slope that any increased blocksize will 'certainly' = a less decentralized network? Meanwhile, conveniently overlooking that an influx of new users would counter this form of decentralisztion?

It's like people are starting to use hypothetical speculation with zero data as fact. What happened to the scientific method?
 

adamstgbit

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2016
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Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
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Szabo has reached the pinnacle of missing the forest for the trees, greedy reductionism, looking at one tiny thing in isolation without considering the effects on the entire ecosystem and incentive structure. Despite his understanding of other areas, he has become what Frederick Bastiat in 1848 called a bad economist.
Szabo has lost it.
I'd like to know what metrics he's using to come to this conclusion?

It would seem pretty obvious that; greater Tx volume with a minimum fee, leads to greater incentive to mine, leading to increased difficulty and greater network security? Is this not the very foundation of Bitcoin's incentive system?

What am I missing?

Has he fallen for the slippery slope that any increased blocksize will 'certainly' = a less decentralized network? Meanwhile, conveniently overlooking that an influx of new users would counter this form of decentralisztion?

It's like people are starting to use hypothetical speculation with zero data as fact. What happened to the scientific method?
 
Tone Vays has the ultimate Get-out-of-jail-free card in any and all conversations. The moment anything he doesn't have the competence to talk about comes up, he gets to appeal to not being technical, assert that everybody who knows anything agrees with him, and he wins automatically by completely shutting down the possibility of even having a conversation.
They are masters in logic. In last weeks I was told several times things like this

You don't understand Bitcoin, since you support Bitcoin Unlimited, which is obviously broken, as people like you, who don't understand Bitcoin, support it.
I think the recent drop of Bitcoin's market share of crypto coins is a reaction on the braindrain of recent years. Since Altcoins emerged, Bitcoin ever had a structural braindrain, as you can get faster rich with Altcoins and do more innovation. But in a sane relation, this just makes Bitcoin stronger, as Bitcoin is the god standard of Altcoins and can benefit by learning of Altcoins. But current braindrop is something else. It is rather caused by intolerance, toxicity, trolling, stalling, censorship, dislogic, propaganda, conspiracy theories and so on. It's not really attractive for free minds to participate here.

Some leave, like Mike, Gavin, Jeff, some are on brink on leaving, like Falkvinge and Vorhees and maybe Fenton, finally loosing patience, that Bitcoin will stay what they need / want; most accept, what Bitcoin has become and put more Ether in their bag, like Andreas A. and Coinbase.

On Scaling Bitcoin I talked with an editor of Coindesk. I asked him why Coindesk writes so few articles about Bitcoin. He said, nothing happens. In Altcoin and Blockchain, things are happening, applications build, investments made, startups founded. But in Bitcoin there is not so much news.

Sometime, in late 2015, at a AMA on Bitcoin.com, Mike Hearn said something like: "No, I don't work on Lighthouse, as I stopped working on other Bitcoin application. If you want to work on meaningful applications which need a lot of users to have an effect, Bitcoin is currently just not an option for you. and I don't think it will ever be." When I read this, it made "click". I realized. I guess, the Bitcoin community is divided in those, who understand the implication of what Mike Hearn said, and those, who don't, but are thrilled by the technical beauty of Lightning. If there is no place on the blockchain for new things, nobody will invent new applications. If you want to build any application which requires some thousand transactions a day, you can't bet on Bitcoin. No more growth. In fact, the community reacts with naked hate on everybody who wants Bitcoin to continue growing.

In 2013 if there was a new application for Bitcoin, everybody: Yeah! Let the world use it.
In 2017, everybody: Fuck. I hope nobody uses it as I had to pay more fees if.

It's like we breed a dragon, but don't increase the size of its cage, as our sorcerers are afrait the dragon will break under its own weight.
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Szabo has reached the pinnacle of missing the forest for the trees, greedy reductionism, looking at one tiny thing in isolation without considering the effects on the entire ecosystem and incentive structure. Despite his understanding of other areas, he has become what Frederick Bastiat in 1848 called a bad economist.
Szabo was a genious foreseeing Blockchain technology in the late 90ties on a deep philosophical level. I never bought the "Nick Szabo is Satoshi" meme, as their style of writing is heavily different. His idea was Bitgold, not Bitcoin. As the current trend is to make Bitcoin not P2P cash but P2P gold, its natural that Szabo sticks with this.