Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

molecular

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
372
1,391
guys, there needs to be a node operator announcement mailing list or something. I don't feel like wading through reddit crap to find out what I have to do to keep my nodes protected. I don't know where to look for "official" information.

I'm assuming best to turn off thinkblocks for now.

What's the correct config option for bitcoin.conf to do this?
 

molecular

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
372
1,391
@Justus Ranvier

http://www.bitfinex.com/cst_token_terms

Like in these terms, they tie the chains people are betting on to the Core and BU repos. Makes no sense, does it?
absolutely nonsensical.

* there's no accurate way to attribute a sequence of blocks to "being mined by a certain client". It's guesswork and this blurriness gives bitfinex options interpreting those rules at settlement time

* It misses the need of large parts of the market: I, personally, want to bet on a hardfork to bigger blocks. I don't care which client these blocks are being mined with and don't want to bet on that part.

IMO they should've defined that BCU chain as: any chain that cointains a block of size > 1 MB.

Honestly? I think EITHER they whipped this thing up in a hurry without consulting with too many people (definitely no tech lawyer who knows crypto) OR they intentionally built that thing as a trap for for bigblockers to fall into.

(I bought tiny amount of BCU for fun around 220. Think I'll sell it at 300)
 

KoKansei

Member
Mar 5, 2016
49
360
What's the correct config option for bitcoin.conf to do this?
I think you can disable thinblocks by adding

Code:
-use-thinblocks=0
to the end of the command line when starting up bitcoin-qt, but I'm not sure how you would do it using bitcoin.conf
 

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
@satoshis_sockpuppet : I didn't have anything to do with fixing this latest bug. I was asked to review, but that was something like 30-60 minutes before the attack started (from my blurry memory).

I agree completely with @molecular that there needs to be a mailing list for urgent announcements related to node operation. It's more efficient than forums / Slack at disseminating an effective response and informing about what's going on.

Right now, my understanding is that bugs were found and fixed ahead of the attack, but the attack basically happened while this was ongoing or almost complete, leading to the decision to release the corrections already made.

While these exploits are ultimately our (BU) bugs - we are maintaining the BU source after all and don't have any reason to point fingers - it's also obvious that this is a black hat attack on our network, with explicit intent. Still, we should not complain, but fix the code and improve our quality and release processes.

I'm not sure - maybe announcing upcoming security patches with a firm release date would help avoid the "closed source" accusations, but it's sometimes necessary to review/fix/build such patches privately if the objective is to protect the network.

BU also needs to improve on the coordination front, including with other teams (Classic, XT, Core).

To BU supporters, I can only say thank you for your patience, understanding and will to fight these attacks and help us improve.

EDIT: sources are now up on public repo for review: https://github.com/BitcoinUnlimited/BitcoinUnlimited/pull/390
 
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lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
Has the community gone mad? How does someone like loaded not realize ***there is no such thing as a BU coin (or a Core coin for that matter)***?
We are indeed, entering the realm of the surreal. I for one, can't wait to have a wager, for a single digit number of BTC. When someone comes up with some real futures market, that will offer a 1 for 1 exchange in the event of a >1MB hard fork, i'm interested, but i'm not going anywhere near Bitfinex's hocus pocus tokens.

On the other hand betting 40,000 BTC seems like insanity. Fast forward 10 years and there's a very real chance this would be the biggest bet in all of history, if it's not already? Isn't there a better use for this money?
 

Mengerian

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 29, 2015
536
2,597
They were close to installing themselves as the gatekeepers for Bitcoin instead of being developers for a single implementation.
Yes, this is one of the reasons a "minimal patch" approach, alone, would not work. As a complement to BU, projects like BitcoinEC are fine, but we really need full alternative clients, with their own development teams, processes, and everything that comes with that, to make the Bitcoin network anti-fragile.

We are seeing the difficulties that come with organizing BU as a full project, diverging from Core. But these problems are appearing now because the approach is working. And they are problems BU can fix.

@lunar
On the other hand betting 40,000 BTC seems like insanity. Fast forward 10 years and there's a very real chance this would be the biggest bet in all of history, if it's not already? Isn't there a better use for this money?
It is just a transfer, the money will still be there. It will just be re-allocated to different hands who can then use it as they see fit in future.

I see it as a process of supporting the economic value of the participants' preferred chain, which is very important if Bitcoin is to serve as money.

Definitely a pretty crazy amount though! I'd be very careful with the terms of the deal!
 

lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
"Definitely a pretty crazy amount though! I'd be very careful with the terms of the deal!"

That's the understatement of the year. For $40Mil you could buy an army of ninjas with frikkin lasers for eyes.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
"Definitely a pretty crazy amount though! I'd be very careful with the terms of the deal!"

That's the understatement of the year. For $40Mil you could buy an army of ninjas with frikkin lasers for eyes.
is the bet not 30% of 40K BTC
 
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Mengerian

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 29, 2015
536
2,597
I'd be very careful with the terms of the deal!
Some of Loaded's terms for the Roger Ver bet:
"Consider it primarily as a vote of no confidence in the Bitcoin Unlimited software and development team as it currently stands. I'll add the contingency that the deal is null and void if there are major changes to either."
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1836672.msg18283636#msg18283636

"If it pressures BU to make improvements, I reserve the right reevaluate the transaction. Win because at least the combined value will be higher."
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1836672.msg18294012#msg18294012

Very vague qualifiers, basically would allow Loaded to back out if it looks like BU will be successful.

BU is always trying to improve, and is an active project, so will have changes.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
5,585
Yeah, any bug fix could be considered an improvement, thus no way "loaded" can lose the bet.

By saying, "at least the combined value will be higher," does he mean BU and Core will improve? Is he just trying to light a fire under the Core alternative to protect his investment? I think yes.
 
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AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
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Many readers here will remember the origin of BU, - it started on the bitcointalk.org in 2014/15 as an economic solution to the dysfunctional decision making at the Core central headquarters.

A special thanks to @theZerg who gave Us the push it needed to get started (y) I hope its not too much of a headache, it looks like you may have had a rough week.

Anyway I was browsing r/bitcoin and I realized we've gone mainstream.

Making sense of BU: A subversive, coordinated attack disguised as a block-size debate

Knowing the history* this could not be further from the truth, the headline should read

Making sense of BU: A solution to block-size, repelling a coordinated subversive attack.

The thought that popped into my mind was, me a noob who learned what bitcoin was, (before the 6 year propaganda war), It was decentralized money. I did not have to trust anyone. The biggest threat were the developers, Gavin got the heat - I did not want any one in control. little did I know then, I was part of a larger plan to remove him from the team only to be replace with a more draconian centralized authority, the BS/Core hydra.

the same seeds are now being planted to attack BU, we are now our own enemy, (that article is an auto immune reaction) that's scary.

* the history preserved in this thread is going to be the archeological equivalent of the rosetta stone for economic historians.
 
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bitsein

Member
Feb 19, 2017
34
48
Many readers here will remember the origin of BU, - it started on the bitcointalk.org in 2014/15 as an economic solution to the dysfunctional decision making at the Core central headquarters.

A special thanks to @theZerg who gave Us the push it needed to get started (y) I hope its not too much of a headache, it looks like you may have had a rough week.

Anyway I was browsing r/bitcoin and I realized we've gone mainstream.

Making sense of BU: A subversive, coordinated attack disguised as a block-size debate

Knowing the history* this could not be further from the truth, the headline should read

Making sense of BU: A solution to block-size, repelling a coordinated subversive attack.

The thought that popped into my mind was, me a noob who learned what bitcoin was, (before the 6 year propaganda war), It was decentralized money. I did not have to trust anyone. The biggest threat were the developers, Gavin got the heat - I did not want any one in control. little did I know then, I was part of a larger plan to remove him from the team only to be replace with a more draconian centralized authority, the BS/Core hydra.

the same seeds are now being planted to attack BU, we are now our own enemy, (that article is an auto immune reaction) that's scary.

* the history preserved in this thread is going to be the archeological equivalent of the rosetta stone for economic historians.
The problem for us noobs is it is hard to know where to find out more. I didn't even realise this thread title meant anything until until I heard the two Andrews on a podcast discuss how ye all got to know each other.
 
Many readers here will remember the origin of BU, - it started on the bitcointalk.org in 2014/15 as an economic solution to the dysfunctional decision making at the Core central headquarters.

A special thanks to @theZerg who gave Us the push it needed to get started (y) I hope its not too much of a headache, it looks like you may have had a rough week.

Anyway I was browsing r/bitcoin and I realized we've gone mainstream.

Making sense of BU: A subversive, coordinated attack disguised as a block-size debate

Knowing the history* this could not be further from the truth, the headline should read

Making sense of BU: A solution to block-size, repelling a coordinated subversive attack.

The thought that popped into my mind was, me a noob who learned what bitcoin was, (before the 6 year propaganda war), It was decentralized money. I did not have to trust anyone. The biggest threat were the developers, Gavin got the heat - I did not want any one in control. little did I know then, I was part of a larger plan to remove him from the team only to be replace with a more draconian centralized authority, the BS/Core hydra.

the same seeds are now being planted to attack BU, we are now our own enemy, (that article is an auto immune reaction) that's scary.

* the history preserved in this thread is going to be the archeological equivalent of the rosetta stone for economic historians.
The post on cointimes is intriguing. The whole site, as it seems, does only exist to smear Unlimited.

I'm not sure, but name, style and arguments of the author indicate that he is not a paid core shill but one of Berlin's most influental Bitcoiner, who has become a strong Bitcoin Unlimited Hater[*]. But I'm not sure.

The text is just a mixture of phrases about what Bitcoin is, praising of Lightning and name calling people in support of BU like Rick Falkvinge (and, somehow, Bruce Fenton, because he said there is a problem). His main argument seems to be that Bitcoin Unlimited is only Jihan, two miners, Roger Ver and some idiots.

The parts about Lightning however are pretty disclosening: When he first found Bitcoin, he thought Bitcoin could do everything. Than he learned that Bitcoin could not do everything. Than he learned to know Lightning and realized that Lightning can do everything Bitcoin can't. Maybe he really was strongly hurt when Bitcoin showed him that he was wrong about Bitcoin, which is why he gives a shit about the great choking of Bitcoin's capacity, and hopes that Lightning will come and make him retroactively right.

Another thing about Lightning: If all the Lightning Fans really want to scale and not only prevent Bitcoin to scale, and if SegWit was really the superimportant bottleneck, that prevents us from getting the great Lighning - then they should welcome BU and Emerging Consensus. If we hardfork to 2 MB blocks, I'm pretty optimistic that no 4 month later we activate SegWit. If we don't get bigger blocks, I think it will need years untill SegWit is activated, if ever.

[*] Bitcoin Unlimited Hater

I designed a little test for you:

Do you feel like wanting to jump on a rampage when ...
[ ] users freely choose the software they use?
[ ] people freely speak about software?
[ ] Roger Ver hosts a forum where people can say what they want?
[ ] Developers freely write software people want to use?
[ ] People suggest that the user can freely choose a parameter?
[ ] Some people criticize Core devs?
[ ] Miners don't obey to activate software Core wrote?
[ ] developers criticize software core build?

If you answered at least five of these questions with "yes" you might be a Bitcoin Unlimited Hater.
[doublepost=1490260009][/doublepost]Oh, and something else, completely else, regarding the price. During the first reward era Bitcoin raised from zero to ten and peaked at 30. During the second reward era Bitcoin raised from 10 to 500, peaking at 1,200. If Bitcoin doesn't do some similar stunt in the third reward era while we praise core devs for bringing us back to 1,000, it might have failed.
 

Richy_T

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2015
1,085
2,741
Just when you thought Adam Back had the cringiest twitter...
Self-aggrandizement extended with no inflation control!


Well, I have to say that that *does* lead me to a thought that I wouldn't express in polite company.
 
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