Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[freetrader]

interesting conversation with ciphera

 

[chriswilmer]

@Zangelbert Bingledack : The whole Bitcoin experiment continues to educate us. Lately I have learned a lot about how powerful censorship is, and now I feel like I'm learning something about tribalism...

 

[albin]

What am I missing that make's Luke-jr's numbers remotely possible?? 30k+ archive nodes??

 

[freetrader]

@albin : (in case your question is real and not sarcasm that flew me by)

He talking about behind-NAT Core installations with no incoming connections - wallet nodes by users who didn't want to run a full node, and who connected to the network from time to time to sync.

Not "nodes" in the usual sense of full nodes / relay nodes we're talking about here.

--

sigh, it's late, and I misread your question, and after looking at the diagram closely, yeah, I too wonder where he gets 10+K "listening archive nodes".

I go to purgatory for my sins now.

 

[adamstgbit]

I do not use assert in my C++.
aren't asserts a TDD (Test Driven Devlopment ) thing?

i just read up on assert and its pretty clear to me now,

1. BlockMap::iterator mi = mapBlockIndex.find(inv.hash);
2. CBlock block;
3. const Consensus:: Params& consensusParams = Params().GetConsensus();
4. if (!ReadBlockFromDisk(block, (*mi).second, consensusParams))
5. assert(!"cannot load block from disk");

lines 4 and 5 , read IF you can't read from disk, BLOW UP!lol thats kinda crazy... but in release
asserts do nothing, BUT you can't build bitcoin src without asserts...
this is nutty, bitcoin code is nutty, it needs a complete rewrite.

bitcoin Release needs to be built without asserts. ( seems the reasoning behind requiring asserts in Relase is that inline code in the assert need to run )

maybe you can do

#ifdef NDEGUG
#define assert assert_s
void assert_s(bool wtv) {}
#endif

that way you can safely compile without asserts

Also, after line #1 shouldn't you have a check "if(mi == mapBlockIndex.end() )" like what if it the find fails and mi is null, later in line 4 you use (*im) but its never been checked?

hmmm, kinda tempted to revisit the idea of getting bitcoin compiling in VS.

 

[albin]

@freetrader

Is it possible then that the 10k+ number is any nodes with ports open that he sees at any time? That seems like alot but I can almost kinda believe that many nodes that pop on the sync every so often then go offline, but happen to have ports open.

 

[freetrader]

http://watchdogs.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Gardner

Very funny, but Ubisoft games, really?
[doublepost=1489627757][/doublepost]

@freetrader

Is it possible then that the 10k+ number is any nodes with ports open that he sees at any time? That seems like alot but I can almost kinda believe that many nodes that pop on the sync every so often then go offline, but happen to have ports open.

The brain is a very powerful organ. From first hand experience I can tell you that pretty much anything you can imagine, it can make you see, or believe.

I don't think we'll know unless the methodology is clearly explained. Until then, I'll consider it a form of data necromancy.
[doublepost=1489627868,1489627171][/doublepost]

this is nutty, bitcoin code is nutty, it needs a complete rewrite.

enlightenment

.. out of that chaos, several other, better designed implementations have already been born, and will continue to be born.

"darkness was over the surface of the deep"

 

[freetrader]

Debatable. Savvy hackers would know that forking will very likely lead to a period of price volatility.

So it depends on whether they are long on Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin scales on-chain, it's price could go up much more rapidly, and so would the value of the exploit. Of course, waiting has a cost for them - someone could discover and sell their exploit first.

Financially encumbered hackers might decide that now, when the value of BTC is almost ATH, is a better time to sell than once Bitcoin has forked and the uncertainty could depreciate it a little.

If SegWit activates, there is no near-term on-chain growth plan (further block size increases), which translates into less chance for near-term price rise. Making it much more likely that they would sell their exploits BOTH pre- and post a SegWit fork.

 

[adamstgbit]

is there a "Bug Finder bounty" maybe we should make one

"crash the node remotely and provide some code analysis and you get $$$$"

 

[albin]

If this is of any interest, this is the peer that my node banned:

https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/188.40.71.200-8333/

That IP humorously enough is generating what appear to be donation QR codes over http.


Also just for funsies, I tried consolidating a handful of like 2000 bytes worth of old mining outputs, that sum to a fairly meaningful few hundred USD @ 1 sat/byte. GBMiners picked it up. I'm assuming they haven't turned off the priority system (these aren't particularly large outputs but they're pretty old), so anybody out there who also has very old mining outputs, this could be your chance if they have space.

 

[AdrianX]

What am I missing that make's Luke-jr's numbers remotely possible?? 30k+ archive nodes??

I can understand an archive/ listening node, but what is a non listening node? is that like someone who stooped running a node?

 

[adamstgbit]

If this is of any interest, this is the peer that my node banned:

https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/188.40.71.200-8333/

That IP humorously enough is generating what appear to be donation QR codes over http.

why did your node ban this node?

 

[freetrader]

http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/03/assert-in-hands-of-bad-coders.html?showComment=1489618432279#c2654597948138966243

Archived: http://archive.is/cdHZN

Wouldn't want that response to go to waste for future generations.

There is no main.cpp in Bitcoin Core anymore, in fact.

Implying to the casual reader that the use of the mentioned assert() in main.cpp cannot be due to Bitcoin Core.
Look ma - the code has moved!

 

[adamstgbit]

why did the BU node ban the Core node.
The core node kept asserting nonsense

 

[Roger_Murdock]

A little over a year ago I made this post where I estimated that the deadweight loss from Bitcoin's failure to scale was maybe $10,000 a day, a relatively-modest sum in the scheme of things. I ended that post on an optimistic note:

I've seen a lot of pessimism and even despair from supporters of Satoshi's original vision. With lots of us wondering: "how can it possibly be taking this long to fork???" But I wonder if, in light of the above, there's not a case for the exact opposite conclusion. In other words, the real question might be: "how is Blockstream Core already having to work this hard to keep the 1-MB limit in place when the real pressure hasn't even started?"
​

So... yeah... I'm not sure how well that paragraph holds up a year later. If I look at transaction fees today and try to do a similar estimate, I come up with a number more like $300,000 per day in deadweight loss.

And of course that estimate assumes that Bitcoin miners are only in the business of selling block space, when in fact they are in the business of providing a monetary network. Thus, it doesn't seek to account for loss of network effect / adoption resulting from Bitcoin's diminished "virality," the Fidelity Effect, or from a general loss of confidence in Bitcoin's governance and future ("Damn, the network is still being limited to 3.5 tx / second this many years later? And fees in the range of a $1 are now becoming almost routinely necessary in order to ensure a reasonable confirmation time? Hmm, maybe I should invest in some of these up-and-coming alts that, unlike Bitcoin, don't seem completely dysfunctional.")

In other words, I'd say the bleeding has now started in earnest.

Hopefully the same is also true for Bitcoin's healing and immune response -- which could explain why roughly a third of the hash power is now signaling for BU. I just hope it's in time to prevent the patient from bleeding out.

 

[bluemoon]

Anyone know what the uncommitted miners are hoping to achieve by not moving to BU or Segwit?

Even Antpool has yet to move all its hashpower over.

Edit: I wonder how much time they think they have?

 

[go1111111]

Thanks @go1111111, Glad you liked it!
I'm not planning on an FAQ, I'd be happy to help review yours, look at your notes, or whatever you think would be of assistance.

OK, I cut up my previous article and used bits of it to create a rough Market Governance FAQ here: https://bitcoindebates.miraheze.org/wiki/Market_Governance_FAQ. I would appreciate if no one shared this outside of this forum until I can get it in a better state. Some parts of it I'm somewhat happy with, but a lot of it I think is not that clear.

@Mengerian, @Roger_Murdock and @Zangelbert Bingledack, I'm curious if you guys think I should add/remove anything, or answer anything differently. Feel free to edit the directly as well -- it allows anonymous editing.

 

[megadeth]

ETH volume coming dangerously close to BTC:

BTC dominance index visiting the 1 year low:

Hope this forces a hand of the community to take some action. I'm doing my part.

Not very happy about Coinbase precipitating the situation with stopping payment of network fees, but I understand their hand has been forced as well.

From a game theory point of view, something will happen to balance the market forces.

 

[bluemoon]

The market has decided it likes crypto.

Bitcoin is not giving the market what it wants, i.e. a functional money.

Unless that changes very soon, Bitcoin will be superseded.

 

[Windowly]

ETH volume coming dangerously close to BTC:

BTC dominance index visiting the 1 year low:

Hope this forces a hand of the community to take some action. I'm doing my part.

Not very happy about Coinbase precipitating the situation with stopping payment of network fees, but I understand their hand has been forced as well.

From a game theory point of view, something will happen to balance the market forces.

Pretty worrisome graph there. Looking at the two volumes shows how little ETH has to grow to really compete.

Are Chinese miners looking at these statistics though? Or are they only concerned about the price? You'd think some would realize that time is not on bitcoin's side if they want to right the ship.