Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Bagatell]

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Something like this:

 

[albin]

For posterity if anybody is interested, this is the comment that broke BashCo's back! Context is top-level comment to the OP rallying people to start an edit war:

I would reconsider what you're doing, because if you keep trying to spread the Bitcoin holy war suppression of forbidden words across the internet even into other communities like this, you're likely going to turn Bitcoin into a humongous laughing stock.

Who would've thought that's all it'd take!

 

[freetrader]

Wow, talk about ending the old year on a crazy note. "This post is locked. You won't be able to comment."

And those who did comment before it got locked were deemed to be "brigading". Classy.

If I was an /r/Bitcoin mod I'd be ashamed to be in such company. What that poster said is true - this sort of immature, controlling behavior will be absolutely damaging to Bitcoin's image.

 

[Richy_T]

The necessary outcome of the having to preserve the status of the reference client at all costs.
Hard forks mean everyone must upgrade, and that means node counts start at zero for each implementation. Soft forks mean that old nodes remain counted even if they become zombified by ever more far reaching changes.

I don't know. After reading the bitcointalk thread albin linked to above, I'm coming to the opinion that the old nodes would be mining the real (though crippled) Bitcoin blockchain and Segwit nodes will effectively be using a parasitic secondary chain on which the guarantees of Bitcoin will be substantially weakened.

I'll spend to a Segwit address if required but I'll never keep any coins on a segwit address. Indeed, it may turn out that Segwit coins become worth less than Bitcoin coins should fungibilty become weakened.
[doublepost=1483059976][/doublepost]

Somebody called attention to it by linking as np on /r/btc.

BashCo perma-banned everybody who has anything to do with /r/btc who participated in the thread for "brigading" and is making claims of vote manipulation.

It should be noted that using np.reddit.org is *supposed* to bring you to a version of the sub where CSS hides the upvote and downvote buttons to prevent voting. r/bitcoin's CSS is broken and this doesn't work and the buttons are still visible so it is quite arguable that this is entirely of their own doing. Possibly the reddit admins should be informed of this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoParticipation/

 

[molecular]

It definitely subjectively feels like we're in the early days of a new and extreme hype cycle.

it sure does.

don't forget the halving

 

[albin]

It should be noted that using np.reddit.org is *supposed* to bring you to a version of the sub where CSS hides the upvote and downvote buttons to prevent voting. r/bitcoin's CSS is broken and this doesn't work and the buttons are still visible so it is quite arguable that this is entirely of their own doing. Possibly the reddit admins should be informed of this.

That's really telling that they're willing to butcher the CSS to hide that moderated comments ever existed (which has the fraudulent side-effect of mis-representing who responded to who), but they are apparently not willing to support the most basic of functionality that it's in the interest of protecting everybody involved.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Looks like bitFlyer is going to be the one to open up the floodgates in Japan. Great, confidently worded full-page color ads in the world's biggest business newspaper today (3 million circulation), following up their rather content-free TV commercials:

My translation:

"Virtual" will Create the Next Generation

In 2016, a virtual high school girl came to life and astonished the world with her incredible realism.

In 2017, Japan's Virtual Currency Act will go into effect and money will finally also turn virtual.

Bitcoin is the virtual currency. Its greatest advantage is that, unlike currencies issued by countries or governments, it is protected, grown, and used by the people of the world.

Although currency has been around on this planet for about 2,800 years, Bitcoin is an epoch-making currency that will change the very structure of life for the human race. You can shop in any country in the world, send it in a flash like email, and even invest in the coin itself.

We are convinced that the innovation of Bitcoin will bring dramatic advancements to civilization.

[Tagline] The Coin that Will Change the World - Bitcoin

No. 1 Bitcoin exchange by trading volume in Japan

"bitFlyer: for all your Bitcoin needs" [or "For Bitcoin, come to bitFlyer"]

My translation:

The First Year of Virtual Currency

2017 is the first year of virtual currency. With the enactment of Japan's Virtual Currency Act, we are convinced that Bitcoin will finally begin to change the world.

[The rest is as in the first ad]

The reason they harp on the Virtual Currency Act is because perceived legitimacy is the main problem in Japan, and people trust the government for stuff like this. They also tend to trust companies able to create big professional ads in major newspapers and TV using famous people (the ultra-realistic CG girl Saya and well-known model/actress Riko Narumi). BitFlyer seems to know what they are doing and are going whole hog.

When Japan tips, it will be an incredibly huge flood of new money.

 

[solex]

@Zangelbert Bingledack
All good news for Bitcoin. I hope lots of new people try to use it at once so we can get economic pressure behind removing the capacity limit.

 

[79b79aa8]

The reason they harp on the Virtual Currency Act is because perceived legitimacy is the main problem in Japan, and people trust the government for stuff like this.

When Japan tips, it will be an incredibly huge flood of new money.

what about GOX? is bitflyer trying to mitigate bad press from that?

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

@79b79aa8

Yeah, Gox was front-page news several times and for years everyone in Japan would, at the first mention of Bitcoin, say, "Didn't the CEO get arrested?" The only way to overcome that in terms of Japan PR dynamics is to ignore it and after enough time has passed, do something that replaces it with a new image that has the appearance of gov/corporate backing.

 

[Zarathustra]

The reason they harp on the Virtual Currency Act is because perceived legitimacy is the main problem in Japan, and people trust the government for stuff like this.

the widowhood
of every single government --
signs for all to see (Leonard Cohen 1992)

Anthem

The birds they sang
at the break of day
Start again
I heard them say
Don't dwell on what
has passed away
or what is yet to be.
Ah the wars they will
be fought again
The holy dove
She will be caught again
bought and sold
and bought again
the dove is never free.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.

We asked for signs
the signs were sent:
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
Yeah the widowhood
of every single government --
signs for all to see.

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

Ring the bells that still can ring ...

You can add up the parts
but you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march,
there is no drum
Every heart, every heart
to love will come
but like a refugee.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in.
That's how the light gets in.

 

[Norway]

Looks like bitFlyer is going to be the one to open up the floodgates in Japan. Great, confidently worded full-page color ads in the world's biggest business newspaper today (3 million circulation), following up their rather content-free TV commercials:

My translation:

My translation:


The reason they harp on the Virtual Currency Act is because perceived legitimacy is the main problem in Japan, and people trust the government for stuff like this. They also tend to trust companies able to create big professional ads in major newspapers and TV using famous people (the ultra-realistic CG girl Saya and well-known model/actress Riko Narumi). BitFlyer seems to know what they are doing and are going whole hog.

When Japan tips, it will be an incredibly huge flood of new money.

I think the most important part of the Virtual Currency Act in Japan is the removal of VAT (Called "Consumption Tax" in Japan) on 8%. Leaving Norway as the last country in the world with 25% VAT when exchanging between BTC and NOK. The government in Norway have been signaling that it's going away for more than a year. But it's still there...

 

[Richy_T]

Well, I guess it could still happen but looks like we aren't going to see 1000 in 2016. Let's hope for some irrational exuberance in the new year.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

I think the most important part of the Virtual Currency Act in Japan is the removal of VAT (Called "Consumption Tax" in Japan) on 8%. Leaving Norway as the last country in the world with 25% VAT when exchanging between BTC and NOK. The government in Norway have been signaling that it's going away for more than a year. But it's still there...

What the hell? You have to pay 25% taxes on BTC->NOK exchange? That is crazy. Norway must be the hodler nation.

Is it the same if the trade is between two "regular" people?

 

[Norway]

@satoshis_sockpuppet
The tax authoritys in Norway made a statement about it in 2013. It's not a law, but an interpretation of the current laws. http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/


A good friend has been an "exchange" in Norway since 2011. He is still doing it, with growing turnover. He has confronted the governments in many letters for many years about the issue. They are avoiding to touch the hot potato, so they have not tried to collect VAT from him yet, and they will probably never. It would turn into a trial, and the state would lose. BUT: It's still a problem, as many businesses stay out of Norway because the rules are not clear.

In two weeks, I will try to "marry" an international bitcoin exchange and a norwegian/scandinavian trading bank to get a proper exchange in Norway. We have booked the meeting, and I know both parties have something to gain by cooperation

 

[albin]

I've been paying attention to VAT/consumption/national sales taxes over the years around the world, out of curiosity because the US does not have a such a tax at the Federal level, but it's a very common go-to proposal for the right / minarchist liberarians to phase out Federal income taxes. Japan is a great example of how introduction of new taxes blows up in slippery-slope fashion.

All throughout the 80's the introduction of a consumption tax was met with extreme political opposition until finally in 1989 it was passed at a seemingly modest 3% rate.

In the late-90's they bumped it to 5% and there was a lot criticism suggesting it might be the cause of macroeconomic woes in the entire region. Pledging not to increase the tax has been a staple of campaign promises in Japan over the years, until finally early in 2010's they passed bills to blow it up to 10%, which was supposed to phased in already, but has been pushed back until next year (it still sits at the transitional 8% level until that time).

In the US the idea of specifically taxing financial transactions comes up fairly often in alot of discourse (although not really covered for the general public to any significant extent in normal media), which would most certainly have serious implications for Bitcoin usage and businesses. This was an idea that Keynes himself supported under the rationale of reducing volatility in financial markets.

 

[Norway]

@albin
VAT is a special kind of tax. I'm not ready to oppose it right away. I'm not against taxes in a society. But it's ridiculus when exchanging between international currencies. The thing is that the governments in Norway define bitcoin as an "electronical service", not a commodity or currency. Really vague, and they would lose in court.
[doublepost=1483213555,1483212662][/doublepost]And even though bitcoin is an "electronical service" according to the tax bureaucrats in Norway, you are still supposed to pay tax for the capital gains of this "service" every year as a hodler. The fucking bureaucrats just threw all the taxes they could at this pokemon drug money
[doublepost=1483213757][/doublepost]@solex, are you in UK? Just judging your accent on the Onchain Scaling video and the clips from China

 

[solex]

The Australian Tax Office had the same brain-dead attitude about bitcoins, and set back digital currency development there.
Tax bureaucrats are clearly poor in many countries at going back to first principles when evaluating a new technology which improves on money itself. VAT / GST were always intended as consumption taxes on goods and services and not on financial transactions or foreign exchange.
[doublepost=1483214001][/doublepost]I spent nearly 30 years in the UK, but not been there much in the last few years.

 

[Norway]

@solex Happy new year, wherever you are! We're gonna show these core bitcoin newbies what bitcoin and open source is all about in 2017!