Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
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AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@AdrianX: That's in the U.S.? Wow - I don't envy you.
It's Canada (Vancouver more specifically) the dollar price is also CAD, which from time to time reaches pairady parity with the US.

A new tax has been implemented to discouraged foreign ownership, and new rules for calculate mortgage eligibility to try curb runaway pricing.

But the reality is still crazy, it's very obvious where inflation is going and who's paying for it.

Most people don't even notice that technological innovation has reduce all other consumer costs and fractional reserve banking is making it impractical to put a basic roof over ones head.
 
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cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
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Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
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BTC $629.18
Gemini Daily $634.52 | 1281.01228607 BTC | Total $812,827.92 (Tue, 2016-10-18)
GBTC* $90.16
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BTCswap(BFX - FFR) 0.0342% | BTCswap(Polo) 0.0293%
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XAU (spot)* $1,262.5
COMEX CG1* $1,263.9
SPDR Gold Trust ETF* $121.11
-------------------------------------
HashRate 1.78 EH/s
MarketCap $10,029,755,297
BTC Dominance 80.2%
Exchange Volume (BTC) $70.93m
Exchange Volume (ALT) $31.01m
Exchange Volume [BTC] Dominance 69.6%
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas 1.77%
Copper* $210/lb
Crude (WTI)* $50.77/barrel

*Indicates price at market opening
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xhiggy

Active Member
Mar 29, 2016
124
277
I cannot believe it! You guys actually listened. After all the hours of posting about unecessarily locking in exactly 25% miner opposition and being insulted again and again, my comments finally paid off!!
This belief of yours was argued against, by myself and others many times because it is simply not true. You, of course, ignored these comments.

By all means continue to share your technical insights into the hardforking process, but please stop insinuating that BU not taking your insights as the literal final word is somehow a mistake, or risky.

Your obsession over how the current signalling/activation procedures, extrapolated into infinity, won't work, is a side effect of the core thinking, it ignores the human element. Once the pressure to construct a safe hardfork is on, a safe one will be built, the technicalities of the current signalling procedure don't bear too much resemblance to what will actually play out.
[doublepost=1476917645][/doublepost]
I'm still coming to terms with affordable this is what $2,400,000 buys you in my nick of the woods. (well that was the asking price. but reality isn't much better.)


Are you from Vancouver?
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@chriswilmer Wow $30K gets you a looker next to a $1M Vancouver home. Almost anywhere could be more cost effective but it's not abut practical logic it's about having a happy wife. I dare not even mention the word bitcoin. (bitcoin talk used to show your login in time - I had a lot of explaining to do. fortunately it's not openly viable here.)
 
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lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
Not that anyone here needs to be reminded but R3 are open sourcing their development.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-banks-blockchain-r3-exclusive-idUKKCN12K17E

"We want other banks and other parties to innovate with products that sit on top of the platform, but we don't want everyone to create their own platform ... because we'll end up with lots of islands that can't talk to each other," R3's chief engineer, James Carlyle, told Reuters.
"Blindly investing millions of dollars in small, disparate technology projects is not appropriate for banks at a time when budgets are stretched," said R3's chief executive, David Rutter.

"The risk of backing the wrong horse could far outweigh the potential gains. Given that the power of this technology lies in its network effect, the consortium model is the ideal method to get it off the drawing board and into the wholesale financial markets."
Emphasis mine - 'network effect'. remind me again, how many users do all of these R3 banks have under their umbrella already? I'm guessing it's already many times (magnitudes?) that of the bitcoin community.
 

cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC $630.91
Gemini Daily $626 | 1481.187333 BTC | Total $927,223.27 (Wed, 2016-10-19)
GBTC* $88.5
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX - FFR) 0.0339% | BTCswap(Polo) 0.024%
-------------------------------------
XAU (spot)* $1,269.23
COMEX CG1* $1,270.6
SPDR Gold Trust ETF* $121.38
-------------------------------------
HashRate 1.78 EH/s
MarketCap $10,048,535,914
BTC Dominance 80.6%
Exchange Volume (BTC) $64.53m
Exchange Volume (ALT) $30.59m
Exchange Volume [BTC] Dominance 67.8%
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas 1.75%
Copper* $210.15/lb
Crude (WTI)* $51.4/barrel

*Indicates price at market opening
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jonny1000

Active Member
Nov 11, 2015
380
101
Once the pressure to construct a safe hardfork is on, a safe one will be built, the technicalities of the current signalling procedure don't bear too much resemblance to what will play out
Sorry, please can you explain this in a bit more detail? Was the plan of XT, Bitcoin Classic and now BU for them never to happen? They were just deliberately dangerous hardforks designed to pressure someone into making a safe hardfork? Who are you trying to pressure? Core developers? Didn't this work with BIP103 and discussions on a safe soft hardfork? Please try a more friendly method as people do not like having this kind of pressure put on them, they tend to get defensive.

I really do not understand this. Why not just pretend to do a safe hardfork instead? Is that because if you do a safe one it has a higher chance of getting support and working, which is not what you want? Please explain this.

The biggest mystery to me has been the insistance of some not to make the hardfork as safe as possible, despite no disadvantage of doing so.
 
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bucktotal

Member
Aug 28, 2015
28
54
while a significant number of people wanted a HF then, want one now, and in the future, the miners may only feel the economic pressure to HF in the future. However, that won't and doesn't stop devs from deving what a significant number of people want.
 
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freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
To some people, "safe hardfork" means the currency does not and cannot actually split.

That eliminates a whole category of hardforks which should also be 'safe', but where the intention is to diverge (due to some critical difference of opinion). These base on the right of self-determination of the people to set the policy appropriate for their money.

If I don't want MY p2p money to become solely an instrument of a settlement layer for the benefit of a few who can afford to run hubs, with the resulting risks (and high fees) that renewed intermediation brings for those wanting to use Bitcoin as p2p cash, then I'm going to want to spin off if necessary.

'Safe' in that case relates to me doing it in a way that does not cause disturbance to the existing network.

If we're talking about a soft hardfork, let's call that a 'synthetic' hardfork like /u/vattenj proposed. Don't try to co-opt the term 'safe' for it, or I'm going to start calling it an 'evil' hardfork (a term which hasn't been trademarked yet, has it? :) )
 

cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC $632.9
Gemini Daily $627.96 | 976.14588486 BTC | Total $612,980.57 (Thur, 2016-10-20)
GBTC* $89
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX - FFR) 0.0338% | BTCswap(Polo) 0.0294%
-------------------------------------
XAU (spot)* $1,265.76
COMEX CG1* $1,266.5
SPDR Gold Trust ETF* $120.9
-------------------------------------
HashRate 1.76 EH/s
MarketCap $10,028,275,516
BTC Dominance 80.6%
Exchange Volume (BTC) $57.80m
Exchange Volume (ALT) $24.04m
Exchange Volume [BTC] Dominance 70.6%
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas 1.76%
Copper* $209.6/lb
Crude (WTI)* $50.66/barrel


*Indicates price at market opening
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jonny1000

Active Member
Nov 11, 2015
380
101
To some people, "safe hardfork" means the currency does not and cannot actually split
Thanks for your comment. In my view this is a misunderstanding, let me try to explain with some examples:


1. "Evil" hardfork - Potentially Safe
A hardfork where the new chain merge mines empty blocks on the original chain, thereby attacking it. This hardfork only occurs with extremely strong consensus. (e.g. 99% miner threshold)

2. "Strong consensus" hardfork- Potentially Safe
The hardfork occurs on the condition that there is no significant opposition in any section of the community. A minority has veto power. The activation threshold could be a 95% softfork, imposing the new rules and a hardfork which will then occur after say 6 months.

3. "Chain split" hardfork - Potentially Safe
One section of the community disagrees with another part of the community and wants to go in a different direction. A flag day or checkpoint is set when the two chains diverge. A strategy is in place to mitigate the replay attack problem. There is no activation threshold and miner support for the new chain can be very small or high, e.g. 1% or 75%. The Ethereum vs Ethereum Classic hardfork was similar to this

4. Harkfork with large mining split and asymmetric advantage - Unnecessarily dangerous
e.g. BitcoinXT, Bitcoin Classic, BU
There is a hardfrok attempt that activates at a specific miner threshold that ensures both chains may survive, e.g. 75% vs 25%. (Even worse there is rolling voting, unnecessarily guaranteeing a significant miner split, rather than voting windows, which only makes a large miner split possible). At the same time the original chain has the ability to "wipe out" the new chain if it becomes longer than it, erasing its history and causing loss of funds. The characteristic that people lose funds makes this method dangerous. It is unnecessarily dangerous in that there is no advantage in allowing the funds to be erased. However the new chain can never wipe out the old chain. This type of hardfork is particularly dangerous as the more successful the new chain is, the more compelling it is for speculators to try and erase it and make profits.

@freetrader, I think the above illustrates what many mean by a "safe" or "dangerous" hardfork. "Safe" does not necessarily mean two chains cannot survive (See type 3). I would kindly ask again that the campaigning for a "type 4" hardfork ends, it is simply not necessary. You can achieve your objectives with a type 2 or type 3 hardfork quite easily. (As I explained many times, many are very happy for a type 2 hardfork, they just do not want to do this during an attempt at a "type 4")
 
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