Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

satoshis_sockpuppet

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Feb 22, 2016
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It looks like it has no substance so far, they are looking for lawyers. And I'm sure they will find one, who will burn their money happily. :D

I don't like Ethereum, I find the slock.it guys .. untrustworthy to say it nicely, and I think the fork was a bad idea, but if there was any way to get to them on legal grounds, cryptocurrencies would have a major problem. But I don't think that's the case.
 
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freetrader

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Non-profit or not, if someone wrote something like that I would estimate that they are opening themselves up immediately to some sort of tort claims. Whether they already have a lawyer or not :)
 

lunar

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Aug 28, 2015
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Broad ranging interview with Raoul Pal. Geopolitics and Macro stuff but plenty on Bitcoin (very positive)
He's a global macro investor, an investment strategist, co-founder of Real Vision TV,
 

Cconvert2G36

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Aug 31, 2015
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Not all that surprised at Stephen’s change of heart. Bitpay is uniquely positioned to become a juggernaut in the new paradigm where smart contract hubs are placed between users and miners.

Right now, Bitpay can only take a commission for the fiat conversion of the payment. In the future, they could also be making fees on the transaction itself. It is left as an exercise for the reader to infer who loses in this new paradigm.
 
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solex

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Aug 22, 2015
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@sickpig
I find Pair's comment incomprehensible.
Surely BitPay wants to preserve its business model and has ambitions of becoming PayPal's successor?

I can think of these possibilities.

A) he wants to keep sweet with Thermos to avoid being banned in NK.
B) BitPay is planning to support ETH and any other crypto which comes to prominence. So, they don't really care about whether BTC fades in the long-term.
C) Adam Back has visited their office and used his magic spells promising them unholy powers and profits from LN
 

Mengerian

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@Zangelbert Bingledack You have proven to be very prescient in predicting the emergence of coin-fork trading markets!

One thing that has become clear is that exchanges can make lots of money by offering these trading markets. We can expect that next time a major coin forks, exchanges will be at the ready to offer fork arbitrage trading.

Seems like the next logical step would be for exchanges to promote and support the initiation of chain forks, if they see good opportunities for post-split trading markets. Time for Poloniex to sponsor some Bitcoin Classic hash power?
 

Justus Ranvier

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Aug 28, 2015
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Maybe if we publicly praise all the Core developers by pretending their illogical nonsense is something principled and worthy of respect, maybe that display of appeasement will cause them to suddenly change their ways and start behaving rationally.

Just like all the other times where it didn't.
 

go1111111

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freetrader

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This one can be framed next to Adam Back's "democracy" quote:
The thread is very illuminating of the Blockstream (yes, nullc, you are more BS than Core now) frame of mind on this fork.

Other than that, the kind of threads on /r/Bitcoin's front page is sort of in line with the divisionary tactics that we've come to know from certain folks.
 

sickpig

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Aug 28, 2015
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C) Adam Back has visited their office and used his magic spells promising them unholy powers and profits from LN
He must have visited also Digital Currency Group HQ


On another topic I dare saying that the way ETH recalculate difficulty has been fundamental to the near term hard fork after math.

In bitcoin if minority fork has 25% of the prefork total hash power it would take 45 min to find new block on avg, hence 2 months to retarget the difficulty.
 

Roger_Murdock

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Dec 17, 2015
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Interesting to see how different people are interpreting the ETH/ETC split.

Anti-forkers: "See! We were right. Hard forks are dangerous, especially when they're 'contentious,' because they can result in a persistent chain split."

Pro-forkers: "Isn't this great? Hodlers unaffected, or actually, benefited. The combined market cap of the two chains is greater than the pre-fork market cap. And everybody gets to have the rule set they're comfortable with such that minority rights are being respected."

A few thoughts:

I think it's fine to acknowledge that a persistent chain split is "bad" from an all-else-equal perspective. While holders don't have to make an election between the two chains, there is still going to be a loss of network effect as some people elect to sell off their A-chain coins for more B-chain coins (and others do the opposite). And there's also an unavoidable increase in transactional friction created by, e.g., the need to deal with replay attacks. Of course, to the extent that these types of persistent (or at least semi-persistent) splits continue to occur, I think that friction should be expected to decrease over time as we "get better at forking" and exchanges, wallets, etc. figure out how to deal with the issues these splits create. But precisely because there are costs associated with persistent chain splits, we should expect them to occur only when the benefits they provide outweigh those costs. And you could certainly make the case that this appears to be being borne out by the current ETH / ETC combined valuation.

Saw this quote from /u/LovelyDay that I think summarizes the situation well: "The systemic risk of forking is one that is inherent in free software crypto, it's not something that can be prevented by declaring 'contentious hard fork cannot happen'."

Another point that I think is important when attempting to apply lessons from the ETH / ETC split to Bitcoin is that the differences that led to the Ethereum fork were truly "irreconcilable." The dispute over whether to roll back those transactions couldn't be deferred. In other words, unlike with the Bitcoin block size issue, it wasn't a debate over a particular "feature" (i.e., bigger blocks) that could always be added later (thereby stealing the challenger's thunder). (The "feature" in the Ethereum case is essentially "immutability." Kind of hard to get that one back.) That difference is why I still doubt the viability of a minority hashpower "big block" fork of Bitcoin, what I previously called the "fork now, gain market share later" approach.

I'm not really sure how I expect the ETH / ETC split to play out over the medium term. On the one hand, the larger network should be a very powerful Schelling point. On the other, so is the chain that actually comports with the original vision for ethereum (as still described on the ethereum.org website) of a "decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference." (Of course, over the long term, I doubt the viability of either chain as the entire project seems pretty ill-conceived to me.)
 
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freetrader

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I'd be very interested to know the community's thoughts on a 'carrot-stick' approach to hard-forking to bigger blocks vs. a 'put conventional and nuclear options out there, and let the market choose simultaneously'.

carrot: release a minority hashpower "big block" fork of Bitcoin (retain SHA256)

<give it some time (a month?) to see what happens to the fork>

stick: if still no mining support, release the POW-fork stick

My personal opinion is that I don't like the carrot-and-stick approach. It seems to me that it might do more harm than good, in that the market could be made more uncertain by two forks in succession. Then again, one would announce the plan quite clearly beforehand, so everyone knows what the deal would be.
 
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xhiggy

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Mar 29, 2016
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presiding over this thread is not something i care to do anymore in this forum atmosphere. thus, i am closing it. i’ll consider reopening it over at some place, like forum.bitcoin.com, if there’s enough interest. pm me on Twitter or Reddit to make sure i get the message.
It has gotten pretty far away from its original purpose.
 

lunar

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Aug 28, 2015
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I find it all fascinating. I think the biggest eye opener here are the different peoples reactions.
Its clear some folk are willing to go to any lengths just to prove themselves right. (actually i'm not really surprised it just makes it more obvious for everyone to see)

Kind of like being asked 'what's the boiling point of water?' Answering 95℃ then being told your wrong. That person pours salt in the water and takes it up a high mountain... See I told you so. :cautious:

Anyone trying to distort perception in this way is guilty of not being rational or scientific and has therefore lost all objectivity.

@freetrader fighting a battle from the low ground is not generally a recipe for success, however honourable the intent. Still, I'm not sure how else this plays out? As for that nullc comment. it actually makes me sick. I have no words.

Perhpas read this: 20 Diversion Tactics Highly Manipulative Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths Use To Silence You
 
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