Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[NashGuy]

@cypher

You said you read all Nash's works on money, then you suggested there is only one. I posted two separate essays.

also, you're still refusing to link to the whatever it is you're claiming to have done in regards to Nash. why?

I claimed I spoke on the relevance first and cited my reddit account as proof of work. If you have evidence that someone spoke before the creation of my account which is 2years old, then refute my claim.
[doublepost=1469038608][/doublepost]

Then provide evidence of your claim. It's on you to prove, not me to disprove.

I'm not substantiating that claim, and certainly not in the manner you ask of me. And I DARE you to cite that as EVIDENCE that 10+ essays on the subject of Ideal Money don't exist.

 

[Tomothy]

"We expect certain aspects of bitcoin to evolve, but there are certain aspects we should not evolve."
"You want me to explain bitcoin's consensus mechanism? "

No, I want you to explain what aspects are expected to evolve and what aspects are not expected to evolve. In essence, the most accepted chain determines what bitcoin is, therefore the only immutable thing about it is the shared ledger. Bitcoin participants determine the rest with some groups controlling more coercive force than others. Regardless of what others say, I am fully of the opinion that bitcoin lives or dies based on the whims of miners and it's proof algorithm.

If you want to quote me saying segwit will destroy bitcoin's nature as a gold then feel free. I think it's a valid question you suggest and I haven't put a lot of time into the technical proposals.

Do you think segwit will destroy bitcoin's nature as gold? I didn't think you were saying that. I suggested that this could be possible as it would essentially dilute the value of bitcoin, but I didn't see an explicit answer from you. It is possible I missed it however. This thread has been exciting today.

If you don't have an answer as to how you think segwit will impact bitcoin as a SOV it's ok to say so. I guess, I'm still looking for a better answer as to how 1mb to 2mb will negatively detract from bitcoin as a SOV. In and of itself, it seems completely benign. The concern again seems to be more political than anything else and in so far as that is concerned, I recognize that it poses a legitimate concern to certain groups. It starts to feel a little like opposition defiance disorder. Kid arguing with neighbors. Neighbors say, Hey, don't play in traffic, you could get hit by a car (this is at 11pm at night, no traffic about)(keeps playing in traffic). Hey, don't play in traffic, you could get hit by a car. (This is 6am and people are getting ready to goto work and there are more cars)(keeps playing in traffic). Hey don't play in traffic, you could get hit by a, oh. It looks like you just got hit by a car. (9am rush hour, cars everywhere)(got hit by a car). The empirical evidence shows that blocks are being filled, not all of them, not all the time, but they are fuller now then two years ago. It seems that this should change. No?

 

[Zarathustra]

a)
[doublepost=1469037201][/doublepost]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Really?

Fiat money has been defined variously as:

• Any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[5]
• State-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[6]
• Intrinsically valueless money used as money because of government decree.

As I told you. Defined variously by the different theologies.

 

[freetrader]

And I DARE you to cite that as EVIDENCE that 10+ essays on the subject of Ideal Money don't exist.

I think everyone around here is amply familiar with the expression "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". In other words, we are familiar with the elements of logic and rational debate. Kindly levate your dialogue to that standard?

 

[NashGuy]

If you don't have an answer as to how you think segwit will impact bitcoin as a SOV it's ok to say so

The empirical evidence shows that blocks are being filled, not all of them, not all the time, but they are fuller now then two years ago. It seems that this should change. No?

Yes I do not have the answer for that at this time, and I think its a significant question worth further inquiry, by many players.

And the empirical evidence shows that as blocks are filling up bitcoin is doing just fine.
[doublepost=1469038913][/doublepost]

Fiat money has been defined variously as:

Yes it was previously defined in this thread to include stocks and bonds, and as I understand that is not an accepted definition.
[doublepost=1469038976][/doublepost]

I think everyone around here is amply familiar with the expression "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". In other words, we are familiar with the elements of logic and rational debate.

Exactly.

 

[cypherdoc]

@cypher

You said you read all Nash's works on money, then you suggested there is only one. I posted two separate essays.

I claimed I spoke on the relevance first and cited my reddit account as proof of work. If you have evidence that someone spoke before the creation of my account which is 2years old, then refute my claim.
[doublepost=1469038608][/doublepost]I'm not substantiating that claim, and certainly not in the manner you ask of me. And I DARE you to cite that as EVIDENCE that 10+ essays on the subject of Ideal Money don't exist.

you're a hypocrite. up page you state proudly that you will reference and cite all your claims. yet you refuse to do so when you make dubious claims that we challenge. it's up to you to back your shit up, not us to disprove you. that's just rational debate.

i'll ask you again; please repost those 2 conflicting essays and prove there are 8 others. until then, you're just making shit up.
[doublepost=1469039208][/doublepost]

@cypher

You said you read all Nash's works on money, then you suggested there is only one. I posted two separate essays.

wait, are you suggesting there is only one essay on Ideal Money by Nash? b/c that's not what i said. i said i believe i've read all his works on money that i've been able to find on the net. yes, there's more than one. that's not a lie, like you suggest. you then claim there are at least 10 copies of his original Ideal Money essay from the Southern Journal. prove it.

 

[NashGuy]

I already posted the 2 essays, I am waiting for you to admit that you either lied or you were mistaken.

 

[freetrader]

I claimed I spoke on the relevance first and cited my reddit account as proof of work. If you have evidence that someone spoke before the creation of my account which is 2years old, then refute my claim.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560056.0;all

Could you please confirm or deny whether that post is by yourself or a different person?

Because that thread is evidence of someone tying these concepts, incl. Bitcoin, to John Nash's Ideal money. And it's older than 2 years.

 

[cypherdoc]

@NashGuy 2 separate essay of Nash's? or 2 different versions of the same essay?

 

[cliff]

@NashGuy - can you just link to your prior posting where your provided the articles or references/cites? It makes the thread a better record/reference for the future - and we solve most world problems here - when the internal links are provided - even if redundant.

 

[Tomothy]

Thanks for the response. I think Segwit is interesting but I am undecided about characterizing it as either good or bad. I'll look into more of your responses to my comments later but I needed to note that "as blocks are filling up bitcoin is doing just fine" depends on your definition of 'fine' and definition of what the purpose of bitcoin is. I.e., is it as a SOV or currency. I think yes, it maintains it's utility as a SOV but not as a currency due to uncertainties in transaction times.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions?show_adv=true
14457 Unconfirmed Transactions

3/4/16 http://www.ibtimes.com/bitcoins-big-problem-transaction-delays-renew-blockchain-debate-2330143

6/16/16 https://coinatmradar.com/blog/bitcoin-atm-transaction-is-delayed-what-to-do/

Although maybe not as pressing an issue currently, it seems that transaction delay is an ongoing issue and as such, I would argue, bitcoin is not fine but merely, 'getting by.'

 

[NashGuy]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560056.0;all

Could you please confirm or deny whether that post is by yourself or a different person?

Because that thread is evidence of someone tying these concepts, incl. Bitcoin, to John Nash's Ideal money. And it's older than 2 years.

Thats me
[doublepost=1469039418][/doublepost]@NashGuy 2 separate essay of Nash's? or 2 different versions of the same essay?

What are you asking me here? The essay's linked are completely different.
[doublepost=1469039463][/doublepost]

@NashGuy - can you just link to your prior posting where your provided the articles or references/cites? It makes the thread a better record/reference for the future - and we solve most world problems here - when the internal links are provided - even if redundant.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061553?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

http://sites.stat.psu.edu/~babu/nash/money.pdf

I have no problem addressing your questions specifically so you can follow along to what is happening here

 

[freetrader]

Thats me

That's what Craig Wright said.

Now prove it.

Here's my PGP key: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC07A7C345E86B06C

Post an encrypted message to me under that account on BCT, I will verify that you control the account.

 

[cliff]

@NashGuy - you're forboon?

Same as this guy?

 

[NashGuy]

Are you saying I am lying? This is what i want to know. Are you claiming I am being insincere? Are you stating that you think that person is not me? And yes I can absolutely prove it.
[doublepost=1469039720][/doublepost]@cliff Yes thats me Do any of use really think I am lying? Do any of use really think I can't prove these things? Take a look at the symbols and references. I was very careful to lay my trail. I am a lot smarter than I am being given credit for. Do you all really want a history of accusations that are shown to be wrong?

 

[freetrader]

Are you saying I am lying? This is what i want to know. Are you claiming I am being insincere? Are you stating that you think that person is not me? And yes I can absolutely prove it.

Not the whole CSW spiel, please.

Just let us know when you've published the proof. I've just shown you one way of doing it that will satify ME personally without revealing anything to the other members of that forum. Better of course if you sign the encrypted message with a key under your control so that others can verify a signature from you.

 

[Zarathustra]

[doublepost=1469038913][/doublepost]Yes it was previously defined in this thread to include stocks and bonds, and as I understand that is not an accepted definition.
[doublepost=1469038976][/doublepost]
Exactly.

https://books.google.ch/books?id=SYSelFeRhmgC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=money+m0+m1+m2+m3+m4+bills+bonds&source=bl&ots=7AtJiVM5BB&sig=RrAYJAx8NIoBx6sNBI53tQbQylQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLrO791oLOAhUDvhQKHULFAu8Q6AEIYDAI#v=onepage&q=money m0 m1 m2 m3 m4 bills bonds&f=false

 

[NashGuy]

@freetrader What am I accused of here? what you are asking me to do, doesn't prove anything, just like CW's claim he could move Satoshi's coins, or had satoshi's private key, doesn't prove he is Satoshi.

Forboon is newguy1234, or newguy1234 had the epiphany at the same time

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/business-finance-investing/john-nash-created-bitcoin-1432655/

And that epiphany came from Ideal Poker: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/ideal-poker-1353102/

Which is extended and explained on my blog: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/the-wealth-of-chips/

And contains my call sign "<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"

http://fermatslibrary.com/s/ideal-poker-and-asymptotically-ideal-poker

 

[cliff]

@NashGuy - "Do any of use really think I am lying? Do any of use really think I can't prove these things? Take a look at the symbols and references. I was very careful to lay my trail. I am a lot smarter than I am being given credit for. Do you all really want a history of accusations that are shown to be wrong?"

Ehh - Dunno? Few thoughts/comments - I've been around a while - I remember the first halving . . . vaguely, but I didn't really 'get' BTC then, it was just there and something to check on occasionally. I've been more active last few years under a few different names depending on the forum/venue. I can tell you that the most interesting thing about your posts the last 24 hrs is not the substance. Its the tone, the sense of urgency, and some aggressiveness/assertiveness - overall, your intro here isn't typical. That's not good or bad. I don't think you're lying - its way too early for that type of judgment. I am, however, curious about motives and timing given unusual entry here. If you act the same everywhere, fine - then its easier to make judgments. If your entry here is different from even your typical MO, then that's sorta interesting.

 

[NashGuy]

@cypherdoc did you lie, or were you mistaken when you said you read all Nash's writing on money?