Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[freetrader]

@Jihan : thanks for taking a stand - even if only through words up to now.

I am very worried because from what I see, you are the only miner that seems to publicly stand up for the miner's side of the HK agreement.

Perhaps we don't see the full picture, but if it's true that so few miners are willing to stand up for interests that align with those of Bitcoin users, I am very worried about the future of Bitcoin.

I would ask you to give us a little more insight into what you perceive to be the opinions of the wider Chinese mining community, and why they do not
a) publicly demand Core to uphold the agreement like Bitmain / AntPool
b) if their views don't align with the demands of the agreement anymore, why don't they publicly state their current views

Because of the lack of information from other Chinese miners, it does not instill public confidence and can be interpreted that Bitcoin mining has been taken over by a majority cartel which does not care about users anymore.

EDIT: One more question:

Were you present at the New York meeting with Core devs to discuss the miner's requirements for the HF to be delivered?

 

[AdrianX]

@jonny1000 so for which confreres were your travel expenses paid/reimbursed, and which ones did you attend? I understood you just happened to be in HK on the day of this recording is that correct?
[doublepost=1465928302][/doublepost]Can someone point out to me the people who Greg Maxwell is calling Dipshits. I also though @jonny1000 said he was there, maybe he's behind the camera.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

I am very worried because from what I see, you are the only miner that seems to publicly stand up for the miner's side of the HK agreement.

I'm confident that F2Pool will be on the same side as Antpool when they decide to pull the plug for Bitcoin Core life support.

I don't think many people realize to what extent censorship is affecting this debate.

This was the one of the most surprising teachings from the mess for me. I would have never thought, how much of an effect censorship can have, when people have options. This is really an experience I wouldn't have expected. I overestimated the interest of the sheeple in free discussion.

Once again it's shown that most people need a leader. They can't live without an authority telling them what to think or do. They just switched from the government and the Fed as their leaders to Greg Maxwell and Core.

 

[VeritasSapere]

I am pointing out the obvious here, though I thought it might have still escaped some peoples attention, Bitcoin is still losing ground to the altcoins.

[doublepost=1465929129][/doublepost]I suspect that the problems that Bitcoin is going through are at the heart of this trend. We need to be able to consistently say to the world that Bitcoin can scale otherwise this issue will remain like a dam blocking the economic stream and diverting this potential towards the altcoins, who can make this claim consistently.

If to much of this potential utility, capital and business spills over into the alternatives then Bitcoin might not remain the dominant cryptocurrency for much longer. We are already seeing a challenger to the throne emerge which at this point seems to already be in a position where it could make the transition as becoming the new gold standard for the cryptocurrency economy instead of Bitcoin.

I have always thought that we were heading into a future where there will be multiple dominant cryptocurrencies however it will be better for the entire cryptocurrency economy and global adoption rates if Bitcoin kept its lead to position. Bitcoin is a friendlier more well known face for cryptocurrency, it represents a much smoother path towards global adoption.

 

[awemany]

@Jihan, you are getting a lot of (warranted) attention here. But we're counting on you to hold your promise. I also hope and expect that you can see that a further hard fork before 2017 might be necessary, and at least leave your options open!

A small addition: I hope you can see the power you can have in getting things moving.

I hope you can see that the so-called 'big blockers' are a sizable part of this community - they have been the absolute majority in earlier times (have a look at old Bitcointalk threads for that, in case theymos didn't delete them yet, or look on archive.org), and we still lead in most polls on blocksize.

I further think that a sane community is possible, but only when we're seeing realistic incorporation of the concerns of the major players, and that includes us here, as a group. Consensus is not soft forking at (Core's) will! And of course, also listen (besides to Core and their affiliants) to others who are heavily invested with both fiat, sweat and tears since earliest times - such as Falkvinge, Gavin, Roger Ver, Oliver Janssens - and Satoshi himself. But you might have done that already.

Your job now is not only to butt heads with the likes of Greg - and as well all know, he's very intelligent and informed on code and crypto matters - but, as you seem to see now, far from infallible on planning for the general ecosystem - your job and responsibility now is to reunite the community as well. (Of course, not only you - your fellow miners, of course, have that same responsibility, but someone has to start).

That will - besides showing the world that the Bitcoin incentive system works indeed(!) - do the most to the value of that which you are producing 24x7.

I admit it must feel like herding cats.

But - you have studied psychology, use it productively.

I am certain you can help creating an outcome that most in the system will accept - at least grudgingly.

Good luck!

 

[Zarathustra]

That's the right spirit.

 

[awemany]

Jihan is saying very sane things:


Frequent on-chain transactions! I almost cannot believe that I am hearing that.
[doublepost=1465934393][/doublepost]

That's the right spirit.

Given the language barriers, and in case Jihan's recent words are backed by actions, I might excuse some of the miners for not having a clue for so long. Core did a lot of work (rather: nefarious actions) to make it appear as if they have the community behind them - which they clearly don't.

I have also seen too much back and forth to be really optimistic yet.

 

[sickpig]

this is funny: the 2MB HF that has to be delivered in July as part if HK agreement can't be discussed during core dev IRC meetings

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4o2nii/please_bring_a_message_to_those_core_individuals/d497tbv

 

[awemany]

@sickpig: LOLOL

 

[cypherdoc]

Thanks for the link. That's the only way I was able to find it and comment since I've been stuck on Android.

I am pointing out the obvious here, though I thought it might have still escaped some peoples attention, Bitcoin is still losing ground to the altcoins.

[doublepost=1465929129][/doublepost]I suspect that the problems that Bitcoin is going through are at the heart of this trend. We need to be able to consistently say to the world that Bitcoin can scale otherwise this issue will remain like a dam blocking the economic stream and diverting this potential towards the altcoins, who can make this claim consistently.

If to much of this potential utility, capital and business spills over into the alternatives then Bitcoin might not remain the dominant cryptocurrency for much longer. We are already seeing a challenger to the throne emerge which at this point seems to already be in a position where it could make the transition as becoming the new gold standard for the cryptocurrency economy instead of Bitcoin.

I have always thought that we were heading into a future where there will be multiple dominant cryptocurrencies however it will be better for the entire cryptocurrency economy and global adoption rates if Bitcoin kept its lead to position. Bitcoin is a friendlier more well known face for cryptocurrency, it represents a much smoother path towards global adoption.

this funny: the 2MB HF that has to be delivered in July as part if HK agreement can't be discussed during core dev IRC meetings

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4o2nii/please_bring_a_message_to_those_core_individuals/d497tbv

 

[sickpig]

Thanks for the link. That's the only way I was able to find it and comment since I've been stuck on Android. - @cypherdoc

try to long press on the "Loading reddit comment..." placeholder, a context menu should appear, then chose open link in a new tab.

 

[freetrader]

I've been stuck on Android.

What the heck, are you being detained? ;-)

 

[Norway]

Just a little info:
All coins bought between november 15 2013 and february 15 2014 have lost value.
All coins bought outside this narrow 4 months window the last 7 years have gained value.

 

[Norway]

25 MB / 20k+ tx in mempool.
I like it. Because the congestion makes BU/Classic a reality in the big pools sooner.
EDIT: Mempool to the mooooon ┗(°0°)┛

 

[cypherdoc]

Nope

Thanks for the link. That's the only way I was able to find it and comment since I've been stuck on Android. - @cypherdoc

try to long press on the "Loading reddit comment..." placeholder, a context menu should appear, then chose open link in a new tab.

 

[pekatete]

@Jihan - the guy that signed that HK agreement does not think there's an issue with user experience, well for 2 years!

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4o2nii/please_bring_a_message_to_those_core_individuals/d49g6ge

 

[jonny1000]

Please bring a message to those Core individuals who have signed on the HK agreement that Antpool wants them to timely propose the 2MB HF code they have promised in the HK conference. Timely means in July. As free individuals they have the capability to write some code.

I agree with this. Not that I personally matter at all, however if you read my comments on /r/btc and Bitcointalk and am trying to encourage the Core team to support the hardfork to around 2MB of non-witness data. (See below)
You are right, 5 developers agreed to implement this code and I really hope and think that they all will. However what is important is getting other Core developers to agree. I hope you agree with this and want the HF to happen as smoothly as possible, in a strong and decisive way, the last thing we need is another HF attempt that loses. Therefore we want as many of the Core team to support the HF as possible.

Don't feel too safe

I agree, I saw how difficult the HK agreement was, I do not feel safe at all.

you call your promise as being blackmailed. When about signing the HK agreement, miners had prepared very well in minds what if you guys would not deliver the promise in July, which is more and more likely to happen.

This comment really expresses how difficult the situation is. In my view there are basically two large groups of people:

1. People who want a 2MB HF
2. People who want a 2MB HF, but above that they want to ensure that a HF occurs without pressure, force and in a calm way

I think both groups can hopefully get what they want, that is what I am trying to help happen, I do not know if my comments are helping or if it makes things worse. I understand that most people here think the logic of group two is immoral and technically flawed. I respect that, but please be pragmatic, please recognise the reality that a large number of people fall into group two. To these people Classic/XT were counterproductive and saying "SegWit won't happen unless...", can unfortunately make it harder for them to support the HF. I know you do not agree, but all I ask is you recognise this reality and be pragmatic. Lets try to reduce the pressure so as many people support the 2MB HF as possible.

That's fine, we have the patience

I respect that and agree, I think patience is very important.

 

[pekatete]

Looks like the community he refers to is no other than our very own village troll. Well, he does count as a member of the community, not a community in himself!

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4o2nii/please_bring_a_message_to_those_core_individuals/d49h8yj

 

[jonny1000]

Core is a community without any political structure, why you can predict that "Gavin could have eaily got 4MB then if he wanted to" based on a fact "the lead of Core...clearing the way for a moderate proposal like 4MB". Who is "the lead"? Why you can make such prediction right after when "the lead" say something? Just being curious.

The "lead" I am referring to is Wladimir van der Laan. Many members of the Core team would say he is not the lead and that he is the maintainer of the project, who has a "janitorial role", only to merge code if there is strong consensus. This is mostly true, however in some respects he makes the decision on if there is consensus enough and I think he owns the official repository.

I am mostly basing my comments of this post:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/007890.html

As the above reads, in May 2015, Wladimir said he was "weakly against" a blocksize increase in the near future and then gave a reasonably balanced argument. I thought the “weakly” comment meant he was open to other more moderate ideas other than the 20MB proposal, which Gavin was pushing at the time. After this post from Wladimir, it became clear Gavin was not getting his 20MB idea into Core.

After XT was launched he indicated that during the XT period we needed to stick with 1MB to rally together as the XT activation methodology was potentially dangerous and locking in 8GB may be too high, after XT support was reduced to insignificant levels, he said a hardfork would be likely to happen.

All we need is a period of clam, no pressure, no threats, no force and we can get a 2MB HF. I really hope it happens soon.

 

[solex]

25 MB / 20k+ tx in mempool.
I like it. Because the congestion makes BU/Classic a reality in the big pools sooner.
EDIT: Mempool to the mooooon ┗(°0°)┛

@Norway. Absolutely. We are at a very crucial period (maybe just lasting months) where ecosystem BTC usage has to grow faster than it can spill over into the alts. Because if the momentum for the former can be sustained then the path of least resistance is an emergency block limit increase. If the momentum cannot be sustained then the boiling-frog syndrome occurs where the 1MB remains and new users find the alt-coins work good enough, so Bitcoin's first-mover advantage is irretrievably lost.