Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[sickpig]

@Justus Ranvier spot on.

I enjoined the more "evident" of the two, though.

Anyhow I'm surprised by the determination core devs are putting in the effort of cutting out @Gavin Andresen. It is extremely telling, imho.

 

[Richy_T]

I know, but the thing about having to add Craig's signature in the message (I've no link for that post, sorry) left me quite puzzled

It's not that much of an issue, it just links CSW to the signed message. Purportedly they forgot to add it to the message they were verifying and so it failed the first time. Second time they added it and it verified.

On the face of it, it's quite reasonable. It does have the element of showmanship about it though: "Is this your card? No? Well, how about this one inside this orange that's been sitting on the table through the whole show?"

I'm a bit concerned about Wired's wording also. "But then Andresen noticed that they’d accidentally left off Wright’s initials from the message they were testing, and checked again:". Who's 'they'?Gavin should be the one verifying the message. Craig should have been sitting in the corner whistling until Gavin had things verified.

There's little doubt to me now that Gavin got duped. There are a few things that might suggest how but there has not been enough information given and until or unless Gavin lays things out in detail, it's all just guesswork.

 

[Norway]

@Richy_T
The suggested hack from @Dusty has no root in the real world. The person who made the theory doesn't know how Electrum verify a signed message, or is trying to make confusing FUD.

You don't have to be a cryptographic expert to use these tools safe. But you should know the concepts, and Gavin knows them very well.

The whole session with Craig and Gavin was to prove it to Gavin only, not to produce a public proof. Same goes for the others who got the same type of proof. That's why they couldn't keep the signatures after the meeting.

I am very sure CSW is Satoshi. 3 news outlets and two bitcoin experts confirmed it based on a set of different proofs, not just cryptographic.

I was very supprised that CSW did a 180. But there is probably a crazy game going on in the background.

This story has just begun.

 

[Melbustus]

@Norway - Don't forget:

 

[Norway]

@Melbustus
I know this. What does it tell you?
- That Gavin is lying about that he downloaded Electrum?
- That Gavin downloaded a hacked version of Electrum from the official website, and failed to check it with the signature file?
- Something else? Please elaborate.

 

[Melbustus]

@Norway - Just another question mark. I suppose it tells me one of:
1) Gavin and/or Craig failed to check the sig but the copy of Electrum was nevertheless fine.
2) Gavin and/or Craig failed to check the sig and the copy of Electrum was rigged.
3) For some reason, they were not on a UK IP (and they may or may not have checked the sig).

I think it's obvious, though, that it introduces more doubt. Nothing conclusive, of course... it just ups the probability coefficient on the Gavin-was-duped-by-a-rigged-Electrum-client term in this ugly equation.
[doublepost=1462578359][/doublepost]@Norway - FWIW, if I had to bet right now on a rough theory, I'd go with the following, which I noted the other day:

...
-- CW is part of the satoshi team, not a critical part, and has used what access/knowledge he had from that to convince Ian (and Gavin & Matonis) that he's the primary mind behind bitcoin.
...

But I wouldn't bet very much. None of the theories are all that satisfying.


Regardless, this is all wearing quite thin. I'd much rather we were talking about Konrad Graf's excellent interview a bit more: https://news.bitcoin.com/konrad-graf-bitcoin-block-size-economy/

 

[Norway]

I think we should try to remove the question marks. The only alternative we discussed now that could trick Gavin is number 2, that Gavin downloaded a hacked version of Electrum from the official website.

Electrum say this is unlikely in the same twitter thread:
[doublepost=1462579194][/doublepost]So this hacked Electrum theory was pretty much debunked by Jamie Cansdale immediately. But people are still bringing it up.

 

[Richy_T]

@Richy_T
The suggested hack from @Dusty has no root in the real world. The person who made the theory doesn't know how Electrum verify a signed message, or is trying to make confusing FUD.

If you are talking about the theory I am thinking about, I completely agree. I even pulled the author up about it on Reddit.

I am trying to think of it in terms of what Gavin experienced and how an illusionist might have pulled one over on Gavin. Certainly the provenance of the laptop is in question. I have no doubt that Gavin believes the message, public key and address were entered into Electrum and I believe he would have pulled the actual public key from his own list. But could the missing CSW have been an opportunity for Craig to operate the keyboard and do something? The message field could have been emptied for example. But the public key would also need to have been nobbled for that. And if you've done that, you don't need to alter the message. Unless you can put in a message that you already know has been signed...

 

[Norway]

@Melbustus
Sounds a bit far fetched. Did he also do this keyboard-fiddeling on Jon Matonis? Two times in a row? (Matonis checked at least two signatures.)

Neither Gavin nor Matonis have changed their statements that they believe Craig is Satoshi (or the leader of the team.)

The simplest explanation to me is that bigblocker Craig is under some sort of preassure. That would explain everything.

 

[Inca]

Yep the CW saga is bizarre. It will be fun to see this unfold over the coming months and years.

The price seems to have perked up again. It could be on the verge of a breakout if it can limp above 471 and finally test the 500 area. Still a lot of leveraged longs. But that doesn't mean we won't rise higher and see a mini-bubble.

Here is hoping for a Halving Bubble for my upcoming birthday.

 

[Richy_T]

I guess I don't really buy an honorable person, like I suspect the real Satoshi to be, throwing Gavin et al under the bus like that. I wouldn't have believed it was actually him without proper public proof in any case but I was happy to reserve judgement in the meantime.

Definitely going to be an interesting summer. My prediction? Lots of finger pointing.
[doublepost=1462584893][/doublepost]

So this hacked Electrum theory was pretty much debunked by Jamie Cansdale immediately. But people are still bringing it up.

Not really. HTTPS can be spoofed, particularly since the provenance of the laptop is in question. Ideally, Gavin should have brought a previously downloaded copy of Electrum, and his own laptop but at least checked the fingerprint on the cert.

 

[sickpig]

 

[Bagatell]

Have I mentioned before that RES is incredibly useful, especially the tagging feature?

Another one for your list. https://www.reddit.com/user/dcrninja

@sickpig He seems to be very interested in that tweet you linked.

 

[albin]

Ideally, Gavin should have brought a previously downloaded copy of Electrum, and his own laptop but at least checked the fingerprint on the cert.

Barring some extreme hardware hacks, I feel like CSW's laptop but live booting Tails Linux (with Electrum already in the Tails distro anyway) would've been pretty ok too (and preserving the inability to take any data with him).

 

[Dusty]

The suggested hack from @Dusty has no root in the real world. The person who made the theory doesn't know how Electrum verify a signed message, or is trying to make confusing FUD.

That was only an example to show that a proof has many steps and you need to miss just one to be compromised. In the real world is very, very easy to fall prey of the weakest link: for example how many people check the ssh fingerprints of the server they connect the first time? They just assume they're good.

I personally find very strange that Gavin could have a bad signature verification, but yet I find even stranger that a whole setup was made in place with a rigged electrum copy.

And yet, if Craig signed with the real keys the message, I find even more stranger that Craig did all this just to discredit Gavin and give even more power to che Core developers: do you agree that this story will render the possibility of a hard fork to 2 mb (or more) almost impossible now?

The credibility of the classic team has been given a really bad hit.
On the contrary, if only Craig would publish the proof shown to Gavin, we would have a much more balanced situation now: the credibility of the Classic team backed with the real Satoshi...
[doublepost=1462612566,1462611914][/doublepost]Other infos by New Liberty:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803

 

[Dusty]

A strange but interesting message from Ian:
http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-May/029323.html

 

[Norway]

@Dusty
Are you still defending your hack theory after I clearly debunked it?

 

[freetrader]

https://news.bitcoin.com/liberty-reserve-creator-jail-time/

Second half of the article goes on to speculate about the implications of this for Satoshi Nakamoto.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

The troll army on Reddit spent a solid 48 hours continually hammering the point about how bad Gavin's judgement was to be so easily fooled by a con artist, as if they never expected anyone to point out that the current controllers of the repo are only there at all because of Gavin's judgement in the first place.

Yes. I'm far from being a fan of conspiracy-theories and everyone who knows me knows that I think just the best of people before the opposite is proofen ... But I think for some time that there are paid trolls on reddit. The show this week made me sure about this. You postet a short list on r/btc about that trolls. It's far from complete, you should add /spontanousemerge, /guy_tell, /gratefull_tony and a lot more.

Either there are 10-20 people that have nothing to do in their live than being 24/7 on reddit and protecting core's position aggressively, applying a lot of propagandist's tactics professionally (goal shifting, counter-questions, appeals to authority, hammering, shaping the narratives, personal attacks and so on) and knowing nearly every source helping their case. It's really hard to believe these guys are amateurs and not professionals.

Another thing: in the last months it was a sin to be with classic, but it was to some part ok to stay neutral. Now the propaganda goals shiftet and you are no longer allowed to be neutral. Who is not for core is against bitcoin.

 

[Bagatell]

https://news.bitcoin.com/liberty-reserve-creator-jail-time/

Second half of the article goes on to speculate about the implications of this for Satoshi Nakamoto.

Is this an attempt to conflate Liberty Reserve with New Liberty Dollar?