Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Inca]

That thread is a who's who of trolls and shills. Brg44 is just a lickspittle who missed out on the last bubble.

/r/bitcoin is so toxic it is crazy.

The best thing bitcoin could hope for right now is a hard fork with the emergence of multiple clients on the network protecting the protocol.

What we have now is a flawed model with a paid off dictator who doesn't believe bitcoin can scale (whilst selling off chain scaling solutions to their VC's) and introducing wild unwanted changes and 'improvements'. We're it not for the fact that users run wallets rather than nodes the network would have fired them months ago.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

 

[majamalu]

our own @majamalu decides to kick some ass:

Why Blockstream is doomed to fail

http://elbitcoin.org/blockstream-condenado-fracasar/

what's funny is English is my first language and i don't think i can write English as well as @majamalu

Well I have to admit that this thread is my daily source of insights; so thanks again to all of you. It may not be apparent right now, but I seriously think we are making history.

By the way, I'm still translating every jewel that I find around here, like this one from Zangelbert Bingledack: http://elbitcoin.org/detras-cortina-de-humo-tecnocracia-bitcoin-core/

And these are my last posts:

Como Berlín oriental, pero sin el muro (Like East Berlin, but without the wall): http://elbitcoin.org/berlin-oriental-sin-muro/

Satoshi, perdónalos, porque no saben que no saben (Satoshi, forgive them, for they don't know they don't know): http://elbitcoin.org/satoshi-perdonalos-no-saben-no-saben/

 

[Zarathustra]

This thread is an epic fail for /r/bitcoin moderator community manipulation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4egnvh/peter_todd_worried_about_those_willing_to_fork/?sort=top

Apparently it was sorted controversial, in which case I got the top spot, but then once they went back to "top", Gavin had the top spot. A real rock and a hard place for the astroturfing moderator crew.

Also side note, read how proactive the infamous brgtroll is in running damage control all over the thread, and tell me this guy isn't on somebody's payroll.

He seems to be very angry, since he jumped on the Bitcoin train at all time high price, as Adam Back did, the president of those paid destroyers and its cheerleaders.

 

[cypherdoc]

 

[albin]

Kind of a general life experience-related thought that maybe folks can relate to:

Back in your youth due to inexperience, naivete, etc. you ever been in the situation where there's some young lady who's just determined to form a relationship with you, and you start to really like her because she's nothing but pleasant and ego-filling to you, and because you like that feeling, you're completely blinded by how terribly she treats all her friends and family? Then once she feels secure that she's got you, suddenly you get treated just like them, and you wonder what the hell happened?

I think that scenario might have some relevance to Adam Back wooing miners.

 

[Richy_T]

I'm kind-of getting the feeling that someone who is *very* good at game theory saw Bitcoin's potential and worked out how to play everyone against each other to siphon off all that potential into their own project.

 

[cypherdoc]

Kind of a general life experience-related thought that maybe folks can relate to:

Back in your youth due to inexperience, naivete, etc. you ever been in the situation where there's some young lady who's just determined to form a relationship with you, and you start to really like her because she's nothing but pleasant and ego-filling to you, and because you like that feeling, you're completely blinded by how terribly she treats all her friends and family? Then once she feels secure that she's got you, suddenly you get treated just like them, and you wonder what the hell happened?

I think that scenario might have some relevance to Adam Back wooing miners.

not exactly.

your analogy would be better put with a wife. in that scenario, once she divorces you, she gets to take at least half of everything you own...
[doublepost=1460562803][/doublepost]

I'm kind-of getting the feeling that someone who is *very* good at game theory saw Bitcoin's potential and worked out how to play everyone against each other to siphon off all that potential into their own project.

buying off core dev thru for-profit Blockstream appears to have been a good move. the main hooligans in that regard were Backtrack, Maxwell, & Hill. the other core devs who got bought off easily capitulated b/c of the money. but the game isn't over. we need to keep educating and pointing out hypocrisies of which there are many.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

I think you addressed the wrong guy, I think you meant https://twitter.com/sysmannet.

 

[albin]

your analogy would be better put with a wife. in that scenario, once she divorces you, she gets to take at least half of everything you own...

I think I get what you're saying, that scenario has much more concrete negative reprocussions. Maybe deep down I'm just optimistically hoping it doesn't get to the point where a miner puts a ring on Adam!

 

[cypherdoc]

I think you addressed the wrong guy, I think you meant https://twitter.com/sysmannet.

the question was aimed at Backtrack.

simply want guys like @SysMan to get the message.
[doublepost=1460564017][/doublepost]damn that looks impressive! tech innovation at it's best! pretty soon we'll have Boeing 747 drones i'm sure!:

 

[sickpig]

@albin @cypherdoc

I think it could potentially ends worse than that.

If the scenario @Justus Ranvier described on TheDailyDecrypt play out completely miner will lose everything.

In fact in case avg person could not transact on chain anymore due to extremely high fees and banks/big players stop to settle on chain and start settling between themselves off chain....

edit: spelling

 

[cypherdoc]

@molecular

the inflation of LN comes from mission creep, imo. the nuts and bolts of LN tx's might be superficially technically sound today but will morph into inflationary policies as LN in general is found to be unworkable. for ex: my suggestions for spam attacks to prevent pmt channel closure are now being met with arguments like, "well, we don't have to ever close the channels". well, ok. but isn't that an altcoin system that is destroying Bitcoin? arguments against LN decentralized routing are morphing into using "Beacon hubs". well, ok. any centralized hub that needs to be up 24/7 and is engaging in fee collection needs to pay taxes. in that sense, they will be regulated and found when necessary by tax authorities. when these arguments get presented to small blockists, they immediately move the goal posts. @albin already explained how centralized LN hubs will most likely arise that get into the business of fractional reserving as secure decentralized routing is found to be unworkable.

furthermore, let's back up a step. the whole purpose of SWSF is to prepare and morph Bitcoin into being LN enabled. this comes at great cost given the multitude of changes to Bitcoin economics it forces namely 75% discount for LN multisigs (p2sh), old node SPV degradation, & the risks of the wide open script versioning system that will allow "all sorts of things" to quote Lombrozzo & Todd.

and if we take another step back, we see that CSV, CLTV, opt-in RBF, BIP66 were all in preparation for LN.

 

[albin]

You see the Bitcoin Magazine article describing Poon and Dryja at Coinbase giving a talk? They're already pitching the idea of Coinbase bootstrapping lightning as a large hub. Decentralized my ass!

 

[cypherdoc]

i think the realization that LN hubs will be centralized is surfacing. now we need to just educate everyone as to how this will lead to fractionally reserving:

[doublepost=1460566602][/doublepost]@molecular

as for fractional reserve, you might argue, "well, we'll just send Mike Hearn into these LN hubs (like CB or Blockstream) to do an forensic audit like he did with Bitstamp!" at first, that might happen. but over time, i'd predict that these hubs will refuse those audits and transparency will disappear from the LN system. why? b/c all they'd have to do is point at Bitcoin onchain and retort, "but Bitcoin is failing. look at the pitiful 2-3 tx/s! we need to do something to compensate and audits don't fit into that picture right now". also, they'll be so big that ordinary Bitcoiners won't ever be allowed to see their books. the only accounting they'll be getting is from PwC.

look at that tweet from Backtrack recently where he proposed some such difficulty reduction come July to help miners that will probably get into financial trouble b/c of the halving. these guys have sunk their reputations and their financial futures on SW, LN, & SC's. they have to do anything to make those work even if it means destroying Bitcoin.

 

[8up]

I'm kind-of getting the feeling that someone who is *very* good at game theory saw Bitcoin's potential and worked out how to play everyone against each other to siphon off all that potential into their own project.

Satoshi is back?

 

[adamstgbit]

i think the realization that LN hubs will be centralized is surfacing. now we need to just educate everyone as to how this will lead to fractionally reserving:
[doublepost=1460566602][/doublepost]@molecular

say you use option 1 (use your Circle acc. to pay a bitpay bill)

this will mean each bitpay bill must now provide a "pay with LN" option

click pay with LN
select with acc. you want to pay from ( Circle, Coinbase, ?Blockstream? wtv.. )
provide Circle login credentials (username password + 2nd Factor Auth.)
then click some send confrim the payment button.

that sucks...

with direct BTC payment its
scan qr code and click pay Or use whatever method you prefer to send the BTC payment.

and look what happened, you are now using centralized services( Circle, Coinbase, ?Blockstream? wtv.. ) to hold your coins for you.

opening a chancel directly to the merchant isn't an option, its not like every merchant is going to implement a LN payment gateway. they will have bitpay handle it... even if they did, it wouldn't make any sense for you to open a chancel for a 1 time payment... it will be cheaper faster and easier to simply send a BTC payment.

LN is good for baypay accepting 1000's of payments from Circle, bob and alice have nothing to do with LN.so we end up with centralized payment processors who leverage the LN to make payments to themselves.

ugly....

if you use coinbase you know you can't be using the wallet to gamble or shit like that. suddenly your coins are not censorship resistance.

we are hurtling towards the very thing bitcoin was meant to prevent, large bank like institutions dictating what you can and cannot spend your money on.
[doublepost=1460569529,1460568434][/doublepost]how to regulate the blockchain

step one regulated large bitcoin entities
step two make it hard for individuals to use the blockchain ( high fees )

done!

 

[Bagatell]

The more I hear about LN the more I like https://plutus.it/ (assuming I'm somewhere that doesn't take BTC directly.

 

[cypherdoc]

furthermore, let's look at the scenario in the future where we have a LN/Bitcoin settlement 2 layer solution.

who runs full nodes in that situation? answer: banks. as an ordinary user back in the early days, you had two reasons to run a full node: CPU mining for coin and storing a copy of the blockchain on your own hard drive so that you could perform p2p validation/relay services to the network. you could also be assured to transact thru your own full node for security. today, full nodes have already lost the mining function to pools and large dedicated mining institutions. thus, your only motivation today to run a full node is to help the p2p network and route your own tx's. fast forward to the LN/settlement layer future. suddenly, as an ordinary Bitcoin user, you have NO motivation to run a full node. since Bitcoin is now a settlement layer with full nodes mainly run by banks b/c tx fees cost $100 or more, you have no motivation to help them. in fact, you probably won't want to help them by verifying and relaying. and you really can't help yourself b/c you won't be willing to pay $100 or more for your own tx's. as an ordinary Bitcoin user, it's cheaper to do your tx's thru a LN hub (like CB or BS). overall this will be the case b/c Bitcoin has now become centralized and not the p2p Sound Money solution that was typical of the early days. you will be forced to capitulate your ideals to that of a just re-invented fractional reserve system.
[doublepost=1460570560][/doublepost]lol, so priceless, this /u/ydtm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4emkep/a_friendly_reminder_about_the_other_800pound_rube/:

• amoral corrupt middle managers like /u/austindhill;
  
  
• socially tone-deaf, economically ignorant, borderline autistic programmers like /u/nullc, /u/adam3us,/u/petertodd;
  
  
• despotic tyrants and censors like /u/theymos;
  
  
• monarchist murderous monotheistic mentally ill attack-dogs like /u/luke-jr;
  
  
• juvenile snarky toxic bootlicking sycophants like /u/Lejitz, /u/brg444, and the never-ending stream of newer ones like /u/Classic-Rekt deployed to torment Gavin eg yet again in this thread;
  
  
• apologists like /u/aminok and appeasers like /u/vampireban, etc.
  

 

[adamstgbit]