Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[molecular]

this is one of the most interesting charts to me at the moment. if i'm right, this crisis the USD won't be so lucky:

*img of USDX chart

I don't quite understand the significance of USDX. As I understand it's the USD against a basket of other fiat, like the EUR, YEN,... It's not like those other central banks aren't easing, so how to interpret this chart?

 

[sickpig]

@cypherdoc if you have it handy do you minded to tell me the exact time where Adam Back said that we have to maintain the status quo to make Chinese miners happy?

re: geeks/devs do not understand economy. an exception to the rule seems to be Nick Szabo, computer scientist with proved deeply seminal comprehension of what money is.

As a side note lately, judging from his twitters flow, it seems he's going through some sort of intellectual regression, though. On a recent tweet he has called Syrian/Iraqi refugees passing through Hungary to reach Germany "invaders".

 

[solex]

@sickpig
> ...tell me the exact time where Adam Back said that we have to maintain the status quo to make Chinese miners happy?

How can the small-blockers put the rest of us on the defensive about this? The Chinese miners representing at least 50% of the hashing power signed a joint letter saying that a block limit up to 8MB was OK for them. This remains the case, even though they seem to have misgivings about the BIP101 doubling schedule.

It is people like Adam Back who are frustrating the goal of the Chinese miners which is to see a larger ecosystem, more transactions, more fees, a higher price and therefore compensation for the reward halving next year. The "status quo" is to maintain Bitcoin's long-term growth pattern. Performing a radical experiment is capping the block limit and bet the farm on Blockstream's off-chain solutions.

Unlike Adam Back the Chinese miners don't want to bet the farm on a radical experiment.

 

[cypherdoc]

@cypherdoc if you have it handy do you minded to tell me the exact time where Adam Back said that we have to maintain the status quo to make Chinese miners happy?

re: geeks/devs do not understand economy. an exception to the rule seems to be Nick Szabo, computer scientist with proved deeply seminal comprehension of what money is.

As a side note lately, judging from his twitters flow, it seems he's going through some sort of intellectual regression, though. On a recent tweet he has called Syrian/Iraqi refugees passing through Hungary to reach Germany "invaders".

I don't have the exact time but it's worth listening to the whole thing anyway.

 

[cypherdoc]

I don't quite understand the significance of USDX. As I understand it's the USD against a basket of other fiat, like the EUR, YEN,... It's not like those other central banks aren't easing, so how to interpret this chart?

This has been brought up before. I think it is a basket of some sort. But it is used to follow the dollar value as it follows it perfectly as far as I can tell.

 

[cypherdoc]

@BldSwtTrs

Basically I think we're going to do a Japan.

They have found themselves in the unenviable position of having to continuously devalue the yen to keep their JGB market alive. It's more than stunning when you look at what they have been doing for the last 2 or more decades.

In another thread, Zarathustra has been arguing that ALL money is debt. He's pretty close to being correct as most money is except for the monetary base.

Givem the amount of QE and other bailout monies and guarantees we had to give out since 2008, I don't think there is any way we will get so lucky to have both the dollar and UST'S strengthen in the next crisis.

Plus the dollar chart has had its run since last summer and that appears to be over. If also appears the apparatchiks are starting to call for at least a rate postponement at the very least.

molecular once asked where all the dollars might go in a severe debt implosion. I think UST's.

 

[cypherdoc]

@solex

Yes the Chinese did sign onto 8MB but it seems they've latched onto 100 now since it gives them voting power. That's unfortunate that Jeff held that out to them imo. So wouldn't want that extra level of control. I don't think it was necessary.

 

[cypherdoc]

http://www.bitcoin.kn/2015/09/adam-back-gavin-andresen-block-size-increase/

 

[Jose Perez]

You didn't address what I said about the Nash equilibrium not taking place on a worldwide scale either, which is what would create an overwhelming monetary network effect that would not be good for Bitcoin. I would like to see arguments for what you say too:

@Jose Perez

Network effect rules *in its sphere* and *if competitors are not too terribly superior* (or cannot be assimilated). Bitcoin is already highly superior to fiat in limited domains (which will expand as it grows), and Bitcoin - the ledger, not the protocol - can take on whatever upgrades to its maintenance system become available if something (a ledger-maintenance protocol) highly superior comes along.

A government currency can also take whatever upgrades it needs with greater ease and confidence than a community like Bitcoin can. That's what politics is for. I recommend you look at the exchange I am having with Daniel Krawisz at the bottom of the article http://moraluniversal.com/en/why-bitcoin-cannot-win/#comment-2231147291

 

[Aquent]

https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/live#papers

 

[yrral86]

Bitcoin NG is the correct solution. 10 minute blocks that elect a leader, leader produces microblocks containing transactions until the next leader election block.

This would allow scaling of throughput while also reducing centralization pressure compared to the protocol used today.

 

[lunar]

http://www.bitcoin.kn/2015/09/adam-back-gavin-andresen-block-size-increase/

Gavin ... If we create an ultimately secure system that no one uses, it's ultimately useless.

 

[cypherdoc]

Fucking A!

Peter_R KILLED it. fantastic presentation. he is the REAL DEAL.

Congratulations Peter_R!

my prediction stands.

 

[Peter R]

Haha thanks, Cypher.

Gmax and Co. have been throwing punches at me since that paper come out. I thought it would be fair to throw one back at the end of my talk.

 

[Aquent]

Aawsawsummmmm talk Peter_R. Thanks and I am interested to learn of the answer to that question.... how can you enforce a quota on a free market. Someone said there's the 21m limit, but they bit different.

 

[yrral86]

Bitcoin NG would also address the mining gap. I'm still thinking through the supply curve issue when inflation is zero.

Any thoughts on how NG would influence your model Peter?

Great talk by the way.

 

[Justus Ranvier]

A government currency can also take whatever upgrades it needs with greater ease and confidence than a community like Bitcoin can.

Governments will always be unwilling to make the changes which will make their currencies competitive with Bitcoin.

They'd have to adopt a fixed money supply and repeal all laws that involve forced wealth distribution and which control who can hold or transact in how much money under what circumstances.

A government will never do this, because those restrictions on its capabilities are equivalent to non-existence.

 

[yrral86]

Bitcoin NG would also address the mining gap. I'm still thinking through the supply curve issue when inflation is zero.

Any thoughts on how NG would influence your model Peter?

Great talk by the way.

I'be convinced myself that we would still have the same propagation cost with microblocks. The last few microblocks are always at risk of being orphaned if the next leader does not see them in time. This should give use the positive slope on the supply curve we need, possibly even in the absence of the subsidy.

 

[sickpig]

@sickpig
> ...tell me the exact time where Adam Back said that we have to maintain the status quo to make Chinese miners happy?

How can the small-blockers put the rest of us on the defensive about this? ...

we are in violent agreement here @solex, I was just asking because now and for the next few days I'm short on time(*), nonetheless I wanted to listen the quoted part without listening to all the podcast.

(*) I even miss live broadcasting of @Peter R talks :/

 

[cypherdoc]

Haha thanks, Cypher.

Gmax and Co. have been throwing punches at me since that paper come out. I thought it would be fair to throw one back at the end of my talk.

I love a guy who understands what's fair is fair.

Some would say what goes around comes around.

Btw, we now know that if we put u and gmax in a boxing ring, he would be nothing but a punching bag. Not that he isn't already.