Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[lunar]

@Zangelbert Bingledack

*A bitcoin miner is a battery.*
Note also that this allows people to buy higher-output solar panels, knowing that their money won't go to waste since they can recoup any and all excess costs through mining.

It's certainly a fascinating thread to pull on. I see the mining rig as a transformer rather than a battery. Where Bitcoin itself is the battery. On some level the Satoshi could be compared to a Watt (W) and may itself one day become recognised SI unit.

Whilst fun, unfortunately this is blue sky thinking and we're probably a decade or two away from this even being functional. The Energy/Heat/ASIC ratios are hugely skewed, simply because mining is such a new concept. This is where the heat factor becomes important to capture ( as with the water heater as an heat sink concept above ^)

The more we connected miners we have the greater the strength of this revolution. Maybe the equilibrium will be hub and spoke style for a typical village, where the surplus solar feeds into a communal mining farm that acts as a converter, power storage, and water heater?? enough spare heat = Steam = electricity.
Steam punk just became a reality.

It's also why i'd really like to see the ASIC revolution to start hitting some technological Mhash/s boundary where energy input is the most important variable. Does anyone know of any studies in this area?

w.r.t Balaji Srinivasan. He is ahead of the curve as usual. I don't know if he was the first to point this idea out, as it's fairly obvious from an electrical engineering perspective but he's definitely working on it.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

21 says ASICs are already commodifying, so I guess fairly soon? But the hashrate is still rocketing.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Ruh-roh. When everyone agrees with Peter Schiff on the doom and gloom, you know something is up.

 

[Aquent]

Yeah I came across this parenthesised quote some time ago and always found it fascinating:

"People don't realise we are transforming the medium of money:

From Shells/Grain to Gold/Silver to paper money to digital units/Bitcoin and, in the future, we might change to energy and trade with pictograms of antimatter. "

 

[NikeVM20]

I really believe that Aquent is right. Supposing people stopped using the ordinary currency, how and which method will be used instead? I think that the most positive and productives changes are happenning right now, in this era of technology that is constantly innovating and moving foward at gigant steps.
I'm just getting to know all this matter, and what is about but I want to learn more and everything of it.
Just a humble Argentinian=)

 

[theZerg]

@Zangelbert Bingledack



It's certainly a fascinating thread to pull on. I see the mining rig as a transformer rather than a battery. Where Bitcoin itself is the battery. On some level the Satoshi could be compared to a Watt (W) and may itself one day become recognised SI unit.

Whilst fun, unfortunately this is blue sky thinking and we're probably a decade or two away from this even being functional. The Energy/Heat/ASIC ratios are hugely skewed, simply because mining is such a new concept. This is where the heat factor becomes important to capture ( as with the water heater as an heat sink concept above ^)

The more we connected miners we have the greater the strength of this revolution. Maybe the equilibrium will be hub and spoke style for a typical village, where the surplus solar feeds into a communal mining farm that acts as a converter, power storage, and water heater?? enough spare heat = Steam = electricity.
Steam punk just became a reality.

It's also why i'd really like to see the ASIC revolution to start hitting some technological Mhash/s boundary where energy input is the most important variable. Does anyone know of any studies in this area?

w.r.t Balaji Srinivasan. He is ahead of the curve as usual. I don't know if he was the first to point this idea out, as it's fairly obvious from an electrical engineering perspective but he's definitely working on it.

I posted this idea in 2012 on BCT ;-)

 

[cypherdoc]

@theZerg

People don't realize that alot of the concepts regarding what Bitcoin "is" were being sussed out as recently as in 2009-2012. Simple concepts taken for granted today , like digital gold, the blockchain as a "ledger", self contained monetary system, consensus, hard vs soft forks, energy proxy, commodity vs currency, etc, etc. Some of these things are still being debated.

To this day we continue to learn things about Bitcoin we never knew before. Everybody sees it differently. Which is why it's so hard to agree on issues and why most people investing in crypto are destined to lose money.
[doublepost=1450540334,1450539320][/doublepost]

 

[molecular]

I've just read the scam accusations about DeathAndTaxes / Gerald Davis on the old forum. Quite shocking; I thought he was awesome, and long wondered why he had just disappeared. A sad day for me; he had my trust as one of the few upright people in this community. It seems I was wrong.

I just read that thread, too (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=998257). It's quite disheartening. I would've trusted him.

 

[cypherdoc]

 

[Peter R]

@molecular, @kyuupichan

I dunno. My feeling is that D&T's company simply went out of business and perhaps there were some communication issues towards the end. From what I know, Gerald worked extremely hard to make BitSimple successful.

I would love to see D&T pop back up again. He was such a great poster; he was knowledgeable about technical details regarding the Bitcoin protocol but understood economics and business too. He was extremely pragmatic and sensible...and a talented writer to boot!

 

[awemany]

Ok, so, on some level this feels like a fight against brain-dead zombies now, not unlike the movie 28 days later.

The O(n ^ 2) zombie became undead again.

As I said, and I practice it to some extent already - I think it is best to spend some time in the shelter away from zombies (away from reddit) and sharpening my pencil and the other necessary intellectual weapons to win this.

Though someone should meanwhile continue to fight in the trenches...

 

[cypherdoc]

 

[cliff]

Block size inertia coefficient ;-)

@Melbustus @cypherdoc

We touched on this back in september. As more renewables come online energy that is 'free' (already achieved ROI) or surplus at certain times of day, can and should be considered as stored potential energy. A mining chip is essentially a transformer. This to me is the last hurdle for a fully p2p economy decentralised power. Solar, wind or whatever is good in your local environment, can for the first time be bought and sold freely depending on supply and demand of a fully p2p economy.

It's good for the planet bad news for miners, as I can't see mining economies of scale competing with decentralised 'free energy' and sums up why I believe we should not be too worried long term about 'mining centralisation'

Paraphrased from september


This is the way of the future in europe at least. Probably most large man made surfaces will have the ability to collect solar energy eg roads carparks and rooftops

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/20/france-decrees-new-rooftops-must-be-covered-in-plants-or-solar-panels

Good thoughts.

Another potential energy that gets underutilized/harnessed is heat from mining. I used my mining room last Jan/Feb/March to start my spring flowers and veggies (I live in a cold winter place), will be doing the same this winter - it works great.

More to your point, in the future and like with energy, I could easily see a community supported agriculture ("CSA" - its like P2P, decentralized food production)/farm share system supported by bitcoin (especially if agriculture can ever be automated/drone-based). Decentralizing the food supply, the food supply chain, etc strike me as an important component to food-supply security as well as personal liberty.

Side note: you all are beastly. There is so much really good and in-depth commentary here at this forum - I feel a little out of place.

 

[lunar]

interesting thread of the day

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3xglz7/according_to_my_math_the_protocol_promotes_mining/



Shame it's in the censored place.

 

[VeritasSapere]

I've just read the scam accusations about DeathAndTaxes / Gerald Davis on the old forum. Quite shocking; I thought he was awesome, and long wondered why he had just disappeared. A sad day for me; he had my trust as one of the few upright people in this community. It seems I was wrong.

It was indeed sad, I really appreciated and valued the article he wrote about the blocksize issue, even though it seems like he is indeed guilty of this, it does not change the validity of his arguments.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0
[doublepost=1450550347][/doublepost]

Yeah I came across this parenthesised quote some time ago and always found it fascinating:

"People don't realise we are transforming the medium of money:

From Shells/Grain to Gold/Silver to paper money to digital units/Bitcoin and, in the future, we might change to energy and trade with pictograms of antimatter. "

I might add to this though that a blockchain would still be superior compared to pictograms of antimatter as a currency.

 

[cypherdoc]

this is the type of growth 202 promotes:

while this is what Bitcoin can do if we remove block size limits:

 

[cypherdoc]

 

[VeritasSapere]

I made some posts on Bitcointalk about the history of money, and the context that this puts Bitcoin into. It was actually written as a response to brg444 obviously related to the blocksize debate. I thought I would rephrase and somewhat recompile and post it here, I often find that my writing is most inspired when countering opposing viewpoints. After all "Truth emerges from the clash of adverse ideas." -John Stuart Mill
[doublepost=1450553765][/doublepost]Not all money is currency, but all currency is money. Aristotle defined currency as being durable, portable, fungible and that it should have intrinsic value.

Money is power, and Bitcoin changes the fundamental nature of money and therefore also the fundamental nature of power.

I talk about the history of money because for the majority of known human history we have had commodity money. Which is not based on debt, fiat or money by authority is only a relatively recent development. Bitcoin represents a return to true commodity money, Bitcoin is an asset based currency not a debt based currency like fiat.

One important factor when comparing Bitcoin to gold in terms of its value, is actually its utility, it is this utility that gives Bitcoin the advantage as a store of value compared to gold. After all we can not sprinkle gold dust down a phone line and send it across the world cheaply in a matter of seconds without relying on third parties.

Commodity money in the form of precious metal coins, have been the predominant form of currency for the majority of our known history. Many different types of metals where used, including silver and bronze, often coins where also divided, this is where the term quarter comes from for example. Everyone could use such a currency and it has been used by most people for the majority of our known history, it is as old as civilization itself.

My argument is that Bitcoin will not become a world reserve currency without mass adoption first. The banks and the current financial status quo will not voluntarily give up their source of power thereby in effect weakening their position, it is safe to assume that most people would not give up such power, this is well established in political thought and psychology.

We can circumvent and undermine their systems of command and control instead by adopting Bitcoin, only then would the status quo have to adopt Bitcoin in order to stay relevant. History does support my argument since after precious metals ceased to be the predominant form of currency, paper backed by gold became the predominant form of currency in the world. During the long transition phase from precious metals towards paper currency, this paper was still backed by gold.

It is only a relatively recent development that this asset has been eroded in terms of this history, first by fractional reserve banking in the nineteen thirties and later by the complete abolishment of the gold standard in the nineteen seventies. Therefore the masses did have gold in a meaningful way, this asset has been stolen from the people. This is the bait and switch that has been played on us by the governments and banks. Bitcoin allows us to have a true asset based currency again, a return to sound money and the deflationary economics of the past. Bitcoin is money for the people by the people.

 

[molecular]

blocksize limits and softforks are for pussies.

Is this bitcoin unlimited thing you guys made still a thing?

Hm, this? https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/BitcoinUnlimited:0.11.2/

3 nodes... hmm... Does it make sense to upgrade my node?

 

[cypherdoc]

[doublepost=1450554248][/doublepost]

blocksize limits and softforks are for pussies.

Is this bitcoin unlimited thing you guys made still a thing?

Hm, this? https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/BitcoinUnlimited:0.11.2/

3 nodes... hmm... Does it make sense to upgrade my node?

just use "unlimited" for your search. you'll find 4 nodes, one of which is mine.