Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[wrstuv31]

This thread is like Bitcoin itself, the brand has been hijacked to not resemble the initial cause yet it still carries credibility for some reason.

 

[bitsko]

The tie that binds the ABC forkers is the desire to purge an individual.

Let's see how far that can take us.

 

[Bagatell]

The November upgrade had zero, zip and zilch to do with CSW. If he and his sidekicks hadn't changed their minds about CTOR we would still have a single large block chain.

 

[wrstuv31]

See what I mean? It's just partisan attempts to re-write history now. The fork was openly advertised as being all about purging CSW and the 'attackers', at least for a while until the next narrative had its turn in the sun. The reality is that the fork was about playing ball with Bitmain, there is no other reason, technical or otherwise that makes it worth the risk that I can see. The PR team will attach any rationalization for the fork they can think of, and see what sticks. Whatever self-serving narrative survives will be the new 'community consensus' and will be brought up everywhere all the time until the peons forget the past. Those who speak the truth of the past will be smeared on every platform the PR team controls. Sound familiar?

CTOR was rushed. Because of this, criticisms were brought up last minute but it was pushed in anyways. If something like this happens there is supposed to be a fork, that's how new rules are enforced in the whitepaper. Instead you see people preferring the many tiny blockchains model. I have a hard time seeing how that would result in anything but a Fiat governance where rules are made by decree.

It makes sense this is happening, I think it's great that companies are using the blockchain and POW mining to essentially govern an industry. I think that many companies are watching this and thinking about how they can benefit from pulling something like this as well, that is good. The bad thing is the angry emotional developers calling each other names. It's quite embarrassing for the industry, the new companies will need to make it a priority to avoid hiring from such a toxic community.

 

[yrral86]

I am so very disappointed. I've been quietly following along since the fork and I, like many others have expressed, am bummed. Regardless of your opinion on CSW, Ver, or anyone else, by having an opinion you are empowering that individual to influence how you view the world. Please, please, please can we go back to evaluating things on their merit, discussing the technical details and the philosophy of money and economics? Letting big personalities divide us gets us nowhere. It doesn't matter if you love or hate them, drop the attachment.

Bitcoin was a consensus mechanism to solve the double spend problem. But now we have 3 bitcoins because humans can't seem to let go of the need for authority figures and politicians. Great work everyone!
[doublepost=1543683751,1543682778][/doublepost]Maybe we just grew the market too fast... not everyone can understand how bitcoin works. So bringing in new investors and users before we had scaling solved led to those investors and users creating a market for "experts" that could tell them how Bitcoin is supposed to work. And as we all know, once there is demand, someone will supply. So once those who never grokked the whitepaper outnumbered those of us who did, it was too late reach consensus without being at risk of having the masses follow a charlatan.

 

[bitsko]

The November upgrade had zero, zip and zilch to do with CSW. If he and his sidekicks hadn't changed their minds about CTOR we would still have a single large block chain.

 

[Bagatell]

@bitsko

seriously? "The Bcash Hashwars" ?

 

[cypherdoc]

ABC collapsing. SV UP.

 

[Richy_T]

@BldSwtTrs: And a single company running the show plus your chief scientist talking about recirculating lost coins is the hallmark of stability? Not to speak of having to follow the minority of a minority chain plus soon having to deal with replay protected transaction?

SV is also a symptom of the illness. I think it's all fractal. We should never have had to fork from BTC. If ever there was a hope, BU should have carried the day, miners would have set their acceptance of block size >1MB and we would all have moved on with the adoption powerhouse that was Bitcoin.

It's a bit more complex than this but it comes down to "This is why we can't have nice things". Many people are idiots and they're enough to fuck it up for the rest of us (Which I'd like to think includes me but I may well be an idiot too).

Edit: In a way, I understand Core's "Let's keep this small and have everyone be able to do this on low powered computers". I mean, they're wrong but that doesn't mean the opposite is right. Sometimes there just isn't a good answer.

 

[cypherdoc]

poor ABC :

[url=https://postimg.cc/tYvwmmTp][/URL]

 

[Richy_T]

@awemany : If BSV gain any traction, the importance of nChain and CSW will decrease. Success is the cure of our curse.

No. CSW has damned you. Sorry but it's true. Nothing good can come from hitching your wagon to this guy and a huge swathe of the community sees this as the truth.
[doublepost=1543727979][/doublepost]

@bitsko if you really want to ignore @freetrader and you are using firefox, give https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/ a try. YIu can run custom javascripts snippets on pages you chose. You can craft one that hide the HTML element which contains the posts of the staff member user you want to ignore.

Ignoring people is stupid. I read usenet for 10+ years and I think my killfile was 5 lines, only one of which was an actual poster.

Ignoring freetrader is doubly stupid. He's a good guy. Even if I can't understand some of his recent defense of ABC.
[doublepost=1543728590,1543727811][/doublepost]

Imho it's time to split up the community in this forum as well.
The split is real and the last ten pages are just insults. And I don't know if everybody pimping their ignore list is smarter than just splitting up this thread.

Disagree. Sorry, I just do. If anywhere can sort this out, it's BU.

Now get back in the ring. There hasn't been enough blood yet.
[doublepost=1543728796][/doublepost]

I'm sure Bloomie would be happy to take advantage of my name and thread title if it means doubling his ad revenue. I'm sure he wouldn't even bother asking either.

Start your own forum, man. I'm not being sarcastic and I don't want you to leave but if you really have an issue with Bloomie, it seems like the way forward. I'll definitely take a look.

 

[Zarathustra]

So many market participants got bamboozled by @Jihan once again?

[doublepost=1543733780,1543733004][/doublepost]

So you BSV supporters despise the devs,

Which devs? The devaluators among the devs, yes.

loathe the guy who hosts this forum

I can't remember that I did.

and have forked off,

We already forked off last year.

but you want the rest of us to leave?

ABC's @satoshis_sockpuppet made a call for the forum fork. Who else?

 

[molecular]

It wasn't too long ago that I would come to this thread for comfort when reddit was full of greedy cheering or despicable whining about price and personalities attacking each other, full of shit-posts by various payed-for shill-accounts general bullshit and "everything else" (for lack of motivation to list more shit and to quote one of the personalities often involved in the bullshitting).

I would come here for the comfort of reading fruitful intelligent discussions conducted in a civilized respectful manner.

Today, this thread doesn't give me any comfort any more. People I've come to respect in the past are attacking each other, increasingly on a personal level. They "threatening" to put each other on ignore lists, probably trying to hurt each other's feelings or something. It's unbearable for someone like me who wants everyone to get along and feel good.

This thread used to be the last bastion of hope to reach the goal of a sound money broadly used by the people of the world, for transacting and for saving.

To see this place crumble like this makes me very sad and worried. We've suffered another huge blow. I'm not ready to give up and call the Bitcoin experiment a failure yet. I'm not even close, there's always a way and I'm sure we'll reach the goal. I'm just growing increasingly worried about still being alive when that day comes.

I'm sorry for sounding so negative and emotional. Just had to get this off my chest.

Should we split this thread? Hell no, if we keep doing that each of us will be talking to himself soon. Divide & conquer is in O(ln(n))

 

[cypherdoc]

when I used to still control this thread, I felt an obligation to maintain its quality to a standard that would make it an interesting, strategic, insightful, go to thread on BCT and here initially. it took special attention to share experiences in investing, technical analysis and interpretation of current events. as well as to keep the trolls in line. I really tried to help people through difficult times. it really was a labor of love and took an enormous amount of time and effort. you have no idea. when Bloomie stole this thread from me by force reopening it against my wishes, all pretenses to that care and attentiveness disappeared. he claims it was for the good of the community but really all he wants is the ad revenue it generates. seriously, is he ever around contributing to Bitcoin? no. he's not interested in Bitcoin ; look at his comments. he'll only wander around here every five days or so to remove spam. since he now acts like he owns the thread, why don't you ask him to put the effort in to make it what it once used to be? he won't because he can't. you'll then scream, but Cypher, you were going to shut it down! to which I'd say, yes, and would have reopened it on Bitcoin.com or some other place. you'll say I could have done it anyways! but after reading all the unappreciative comments from certain folks who could give a shit about my efforts and who have no abilities to sustain a multi year thread themselves, I just said fuck it. so yeah the content has degenerated because I don't give a shit anymore and won't invest the effort to make it great. I'm just another guest. cry me a river my ass. Bloomie is your new OP.

 

[OpenMind]

For me the issue is band width. Life is short and I can hang with people who are supportive and fun, or I can try and “fit” wherever things look and feel best. This forum has been an interesting ride until BU forked into the two camps. Now I am distracted by the rhetoric, attacks and simple noise.

So I moved to BU slack and tried to see if there was a splitting pattern developing amongst BU members and no surprise, there obviously is a split. BU BCH and BU BSV. The later was fueled by lies and deceit. Some people will always be attracted to that kind of behaviour. I am not.

Good luck, and thanks for all the fish.

I am openmind@openmindbitcoin.cash if anyone feels the need to connect.

 

[freetrader]

As much as a way to solve the double spend problem, Bitcoin represents a way to issue a public digital currency without any central organization.

Killfiles and ignore lists are something I hate. I don't think I ever had a killfile for Usenet. Yet after this split, I've found it necessary to use the ignore feature on this forum for the first time in this thread (previously I only put those who contacted me with unwanted and suspected scam commercial DMs).
Enforcing my own personal reading preferences is still a better option to me than splitting this thread.

I read the Articles of Federation again yesterday, to recalibrate my understanding of how BU saw itself when it was founded, and to discern some guidance on where it might go in the future.
BU recognized early on that BTC was departing from the vision originally laid out in the whitepaper.
When we felt this divergence was approaching a breaking point and previous measures to get a majority fork failed, we decided to do a minority fork to Bitcoin Cash.

I know some see the exact same situation with BCH (ABC) now and have so decided to join the BSV cause. But to me they are very different.
BSV wanted to do a takeover, not a minority fork. We told them this would not work, and we were right. The difference is we realized at the time of the 2017 fork that we were in the minority, while they took Calvin and Craig's word and believed they were at least in some kind or moral majority, while not having the hashpower to win their hash war.
Unfortunately after failing to achieve their objectives, they just moved their goalposts - instead of rejoining the community they cemented the split by going back on their previous words. This is regrettable, but also predictable.

I see BTC and BSV as two fronts in the same attack by deceptive forces on Bitcoin, and so my allegiance is still firmly to BCH. Despite some of the criticisms towards ABC's leadership and politics being deserved imo, as I've said before.

But I do know that ABC, as a team, is emplaced in its position by miners and big businesses wanting to build on and use Bitcoin Cash -- and some of them out of a desire to see Bitcoin's true potential fulfilled.
And I believe most of those entities recognize and sympathize with a need for diversity and robustness in the landscape of protocol clients, libraries and applications. I trust Jihan Wu didn't only pay lip service to this idea(l), when he stated that he saw a need for open source and diversity of clients (don't remember which keynote or conference talk it was in, but shortly after the Cash fork).

Looking around, we have now seen more clients appear (some of them born out of previous projects):
Flowee The Hub, bcash, bchd, Copernicus.

I don't think there is a need to split BU entirely, but I think users will favor the software if it separates divergent rulesets more clearly, so that users running one ruleset are not exposed to potential vulnerabilities in code applicable only to another ruleset. As it is C++ code, this can and should imo be achieved with compile time flags similar to those used to build without wallet or GUI code -- I have no interest in SV rules and thus would prefer to build BU without SV code. Likewise the SV supporters would probably not want DSV or CTOR or other code that they don't need, in their build.

Right now I see BSV as professing itself to be committed to scaling, but in wholly corporate form. I do not expect it will contribute much if anything at all back to BU in terms of technology. On the contrary, it seems they want to draw on BU resources e.g. for the bignum development.
This seems strange, as they have hundreds of millions of dollars in backing. I think they just want to tie up BU resources or potentially legally entangle its developers. Be careful there, I say.
For their part, I think they will focus entirely on a corporate strategy with a proprietary Teranode client if they manage to produce it at all.

I see BU in a good position to outscale BSV in the short term, but not in the long term if they do realize their architecture and adopt some of the BCH clients' protocol improvements.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

For me the issue is band width. Life is short and I can hang with people we are supportive and fun, or I can try and “fit” wherever things look and feel best. This forum has been an interesting ride until BU forked into the two camps. Now I am distracted by the rhetoric, attacks and simple noise.

I fully agree with the bandwidth-issue. Everybody needs to protect himself against information he is not interested in.

So I moved to BU slack and tried to see if there was a splitting pattern developing amongst BU members and no surprise, there obviously is a split. BU BCH and BU BSV. The later was fueled by lies and deceit. Some people will always be attracted to that kind of behaviour. I am not.

Since there is not much activity on BU slack and I'm one of the onliest there posting from time to time pro SV, I feel insulted by this. From my time in crypto I only remember two other occassions where I got that much insults as in the last weeks: The BTC-blocksize war and whenever I dare to write something non-enthusiastic about IOTA.

It's ok if you are not interested in the SV side of things. But please stay away from all those insults and attacks. The frequency of this is what devalues this thread for me.

 

[cypherdoc]

there it is again. poor ABC :

[url=https://postimg.cc/QFLvmHSh][/URL]

 

[cbeast]

@BldSwtTrs: And a single company running the show plus your chief scientist talking about recirculating lost coins is the hallmark of stability? Not to speak of having to follow the minority of a minority chain plus soon having to deal with replay protected transaction?

For real?

I used to think that recirculating lost coins was wrong, but then I found out that the "just add decimals" is a myth and low numbers of bitcoins in circulation lowers utility. I myself lost a lot of bitcoins, so it's better to raise all boats than have big boats stuck in mud.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

when I used to still control this thread, I felt an obligation to maintain its quality to a standard that would make it an interesting, strategic, insightful, go to thread on BCT and here initially. it took special attention to share experiences in investing, technical analysis and interpretation of current events. as well as to keep the trolls in line. I really tried to help people through difficult times. it really was a labor of love and took an enormous amount of time and effort. you have no idea. when Bloomie stole this thread from me by force reopening it against my wishes, all pretenses to that care and attentiveness disappeared. he claims it was for the good of the community but really all he wants is the ad revenue it generates. seriously, is he ever around contributing to Bitcoin? no. he's not interested in Bitcoin ; look at his comments. he'll only wander around here every five days or so to remove spam. since he now acts like he owns the thread, why don't you ask him to put the effort in to make it what it once used to be? he won't because he can't. you'll then scream, but Cypher, you were going to shut it down! to which I'd say, yes, and would have reopened it on Bitcoin.com or some other place. you'll say I could have done it anyways! but after reading all the unappreciative comments from certain folks who could give a shit about my efforts and who have no abilities to sustain a multi year thread themselves, I just said fuck it. so yeah the content has degenerated because I don't give a shit anymore and won't invest the effort to make it great. I'm just another guest. cry me a river my ass. Bloomie is your new OP.

If you create a thread somewhere else, I would definitely follow.