Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[bitsko]

I'll leave vbuterins op_return drama links here too, I think it is somewhat relevant to the discussion on op_group. why is it relevant?

well, earlier I had asked if people wanted a metacoin they had to opt in to, or one they couldn't opt out of.

core tried to stop people doing anything with the protocol but the most basic money. it's why we have ethereum.

so unless people want to go down that route, and restrict the protocols alternate uses like op_return, which doesn't really work anyway, it's out of their control.

cryptograffiti.info apparently avoids the use of op_return and stores the data in the outputs of a transaction, partly in order to avoid any potential issue with the stewards of the protocol attempting to restrict the use of the protocol.

in essence, core tried to restrict such things, they couldn't do shit about it, gave up because the alternatives to allowing a space were worse.


basically it's going to happen no matter what unless we jack the BCH fees up so high it is untenable.

it's really gonna happen, I don't know what to say other than people want even IoT and AI on the BCH chain... embrace it I guess... try to stop it but how...

 

[hodl]

Using satoshis to represent tokens is a hack, just like it would be a hack to take pennies and stamp a barcode onto them, turning them into car wash tokens.

Nobody would argue that this use case would make the USD a better form of exchange or unit of account.

well, maybe if you build hundreds of thousands of additional carwashes (all which can additionally sell CarwashCoin in the lobby), the resultant deflation will counteract the Fed's inflation

 

[Tomothy]

core tried to stop people doing anything with the protocol but the most basic money. it's why we have ethereum....

so unless people want to go down that route, and restrict the protocols alternate uses like op_return, which doesn't really work anyway, it's out of their control....

basically it's going to happen no matter what unless we jack the BCH fees up so high it is untenable....

it's really gonna happen, I don't know what to say other than people want even IoT and AI on the BCH chain... embrace it I guess... try to stop it but how...

I took some liberty with the above since I think this is an important discussion and wanted to continue it further. But why not both? Essentially, can't we have hard money and additional capabilities as well? So long as there's space in blocks, shouldn't people be able to do what they want? With IOT if those txs are paying fees, it creates usage,demand, a whole economic eco system. I see that as beneficial to long term growth and sustainability. I find it VERY concerning, for those still invested in bitcoin (yes, some people still refuse to drink our koolaid), to see the usage and fees drop so much. Maybe some of this reduction is due to batching and segwit but it gives me the shivers. Calm before storms and such.

 

[rocks]

basically it's going to happen no matter what unless we jack the BCH fees up so high it is untenable.

it's really gonna happen, I don't know what to say other than people want even IoT and AI on the BCH chain... embrace it I guess... try to stop it but how...

A key design point is if miners and nodes HAVE to validate colored coins and track their UTXO set, or if miners and nodes do not have to and instead only those interested in a certain colored coin can optionally choose to validate them and track their UTXO set. Ethereum does not have an SPV wallet for a reason BTW.

I think colored coins should be tied to BCH since that helps bind financial products to BCH, but it should be optional for miner and node participants to track colored coins themselves. OP_RETURN mechanisms strike a balance here, but that balance might be too separated from BCH and simply use BCH as storage. OP_GROUP on the other hand does not have a balance and forces colored coin validation on everyone which is beyond the scope of Bitcoin. We should keep looking for and debating various solutions and not rush into anything new "just because".

 

[awemany]

@Zarathustra : Interesting how we value the same books and authors and come to such opposing conclusions

(Oh and, yeah, I know that Vilar vs. Schwarzer talk. AFAIR, it should just over 40 years old now. For anyone who hasn't - it is worth watching it.)

 

[hodl]

I'm not sure how genuine Vitalik is being when he comments on Bitcoin's foibles. This is more along the lines of how I remember him having to create his own blockchain. Another one was him complaining about how early adopters were able to accumulate so many coin either through mining or investing, believe it or not :

“Personally, I think this point alone is enough to outweigh whatever 8x difference in dollars wasted per hour on PoW the maximalists like to wave around, and was the original reason for not making ethereum itself a bitcoin-based metacoin,”Buterin stated.

https://busy.org/@gugnik/bitcoin-minimalism-counterparty-to-talk-with-bitcoin-in-ethereish

Again, I believe the difficulties BTC is having are mainly due to the blocksize issue and lack of onchain scaling and nothing more.

 

[Norway]

I got my Twitter account re-activated now, and found out which tweet that got me banned in the first place, lol. (The tweet is from a big/small-block debate, and I pretended to be a ruthless viking king.)

 

[rocks]

@Norway what you described is simply Viking culture. Twitter is obviously racist against Vikings.

Edit: serious question, why is BCH adoption in Europe so low? I remember in the early days for BTC Europe was well ahead of Asian countries in node counts. Now with BCH this is flipped. Norway has 2 nodes right now, and by Norway I mean the country as a whole not our friend posting here.

https://bchnodes.online/

 

[Norway]

@rocks
I can't speak for Europe, but it's a lot of "neutral" PC people in my country. They don't want to take side, and use the words "blockchain technology" a lot. Some of the old school bitcoin people coming to my meetup for years stopped showing up after I rebranded the meetup to "Oslo Bitcoin Cash Meetup".

They have this "Why can't we all get along" attitude, and stay away from anything controversial. To me, it's interesting to see who sticks to their ideas, their own judgement and the new reality after august 1st, and who have become power grabbers and ass kissers.

 

[Norway]

@rocks
Another point is that most BCH people understand that it's pretty useless to run a "full node" if you're not mining. And if you're mining, it's still pretty useless to run a node when you are better off joining a pool and get a smooth stream of revenue.

 

[freetrader]

Hmm, something is brewing

https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/offering-announcement-blockchain-defensive-patent-license/

https://blockchaindpl.org/

This is why we have created the Blockchain Defensive Patent License based on publicly available licenses freely available on the Internet. We believe that the wordings of existing defensive patent licenses needed to be tightened to prevent abuse and circumvention by unscrupulous miners gaming both the current wordings and loopholes in the law and practice of patent law.

 

[Bagatell]

@freetrader

Who's we?

 

[freetrader]

@Bagatell : no idea.

A WHOIS search on the blockchaindpl.org domain shows that it is protected by Contact Privacy Inc of Toronto, Canada.

I know nothing more about Little Dragon Technology LLC, the single user offering its patents (not sure which these include) under this new BDPL. Except that they also hold the copyrights on the asicboost.com website now, so presumably they control the ASICBoost patent (?) granted to Timo Hanke and Sergio Demian Lerner.

There is a BDPL FAQ section

How was BDPL 1.0 created?
BDPL 1.0 was created based on suggestions, comments and criticisms from the global Bitcoin, cryptocurrency mining and blockchain technology community in a decentralized manner upon the advice of an experienced intellectual property attorney [...]

It omits any sort of "by" information...

 

[deadalnix]

My bet is Haloong.

 

[freetrader]

This is a very synchronized blog post referencing the BDPL announcement and offering.

https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-a-bitcoin-block/

There is also this earlier (14 Feb) post on Bitmex' blog which I didn't take notice of at the time.

https://blog.bitmex.com/defensive-patent-licence/

 

[hodl]

this looks kinda serious. could this be the beginning of the ultimate test for Bitcoin?:

 

[hodl]

oh brother

 

[hodl]

"We look forward to your feedback as we prepare to introduce Bitcoin Cash to BitPay's merchant processing platform."

https://blog.bitpay.com/bitpay-card-bitcoin-cash/

 

[rocks]

Hmm, something is brewing

https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/offering-announcement-blockchain-defensive-patent-license/

https://blockchaindpl.org/

I really don't know how to think about this. SHA-256 HW is so simple and has been around for so long that I doubt there is anything that can be patented at this point to offer any real advantage.

Mining advantage primarily comes from finding cheaper sources of electricity, not better mining HW. If someone gained a majority of mining though a technology advantage I think that advantage would be by inventing and owning a cheaper method of generating electricity such as fusion power, than anything else.

 

[lunar]

These new OP codes will bring a huge increase to fungibility and privacy.