Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[AdrianX]

Please join the fight against this disgraceful censorship and attempt to control the agenda.

@hoaxChain Could you please explain is this agenda?

I'm also very keen to understand these ideas that are being so disgracefully censored?

If you feel they have already been censored from this forum and you are not free to speak, please PM me and let me know. I'll post there in this thread for you.
[doublepost=1517251455,1517250776][/doublepost]

as a governance model, more difficult. What could go wrong!?

Just don't make any aspect of the system dependant on IP. IP has a place, fortunately, Bitcoin is already in the public domain.

 

[79b79aa8]

addendum re: bad press

i've been dipping in the reddit trenches to engage newcomers like ZB and Adrian have been doing for ages, and the difference in quality of argumentation or discussion between core supporters and those genuinely attempting to educate themselves is striking . . . i mean this has long been obvious, but it truly is like boys vs. men . . . either many of these people are being paid and don't care about the nonsense they spew, or they are phenomenally thick (or both) . . .

now if BTC price behaves more or less the way it did after the november '13 bubble (and it won't exactly because BCH alters the field but it's a guide), we hover at about ATH/2 for a while, followed by long relentless shorting to ~ATH/5. i doubt either the paid or the thick hang around long enough to get through that.

 

[AdrianX]

Bitcoin Core is updating their website:
They let slip Bitcoin Core is a recommended "Bitcon" wallet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7txwhx/the_bitcoin_core_authority_let_slip_core_is_the/

https://bitcoin.org/en/posts/vote-on-the-new-site-design

 

[hoaxChain]

@hoaxChain Could you please explain is this agenda?

Censorship is never justified, I am banned from making any comments on /r/btc and therefore censored. Those disgraceful mods of /r/bitcoin like theymos & Maxwell censor people and now the disgusting Roger Ver and his mods do it to /r/btc too.

Why would the mods ban me if they didn't have a nefarious agenda? Please explain that!

Obviously the /r/btc mods and anyone who supports them (or doesn't speak up) must be on the wrong side of the argument.

If you feel they have already been censored from this forum and you are not free to speak, please PM me and let me know. I'll post there in this thread for you.

I do not FEEL like I am being censored, I AM being censored. My account is 100% banned on /r/btc. Please help me remove the disgraceful unjustified ban. I was never even told why I was banned.

 

[awemany]

@freetrader, @hodl , @79b79aa8 :

Yeah, he even hinted at the fork, saying sth. along the lines "I got in before the fork, this is something I'll get back on later".

And then he never gets back on that and instead proposes LTC as an alternative to 'high fee BTC outdated technology'.

It sounds like he's relying on dangerous half-knowledge. I find it very curious how you can call BTC "outdated technology", propose LTC as basically the same stuff with even worse economic metrics (centralization, dev team, HP protection, ...) and yet ignore BCH as the very solution of the problem BTC willfully ran into.

Calling Bitcoin "outdated technology" seems to be something a lot of Altcoins thrive on, it seems to be quite easy to resell what is basically a knockoff by somehow sounding convincing when you call yourself "the next big thing in blockchain technology".

That pretty much goes for all alts, modulo some minor enhancements here and there, though all of them don't really improve on the sound money aspect.

Regarding the bad PR: I am not sweating it, but I think we should assess such situations honestly and investigate and potentially react, if necessary. Maybe worrying is simply my default mode

I am optimistic, though. We have some quite some financial firepower backing BCH now and I guess when the time comes, the PR will swing as well.

 

[hodl]

@awemany the tide is certainly turning:

 

[Justus Ranvier]

It's too late to do anything about it now, but this way Bitcoin ABC handled this new address format rollout was awful and should not be repeated.

Every RPC method that returns an address field was updated to return the new format, as opposed to adding a new bech32 field and leaving the format of the existing field alone.

Why is this a problem?

1. (Before the upgrade) A programmatic user of the API calls getnewaddress, saves the result in its own database along with relevant application-specific metadata
2. (Some time after the upgrade) a transaction is received to this address. The programmatic user attempts to correlate this transaction to the entry in its database, however it will fail because the address field now returns a value that does not match the value bitcoind previously returned in the getnewaddress call.
3. Now the consumer of the API must implement its own de-duplication algorithm in order to make what the API is telling it today match up with what the API told it yesterday.

 

[AdrianX]

I do not FEEL like I am being censored, I AM being censored. My account is 100% banned on /r/btc. Please help me remove the disgraceful unjustified ban. I was never even told why I was banned.

There is a difference between kicking a disruptive kid out of class and censoring ideas. Thanks for raising your concern but unless there is a coherent idea or some relevant information that is being intentionally blocked it's not censorship sometimes it's more effective just to keep quiet and listen.

 

[lunar]

This IP debate was fascinating, imho SK won hands down, with the skill of a well practiced expert debater. He also had the added advantage of being on the currently perceived moral high ground. CW on the other hand is a terrible communicator, he lost the audience before it even started, jumping chaotically between seemingly unconnected concepts, and failing to define key terms, making him hard to follow. The majority of the time they talked passed each other, CW speaking biased by possibilities within his vision of the future.

As a maximalist, he complained about the splintering of efforts seen in the explosion of altcoins. Seems like he has his own 'embrace and extend' intentions for Bitcoin Cash that uses patents to prohibit competing currencies from adopting his technology. Then the question presents itself. What happens if Bitcoin Cash needs to fork once again to settle an internal dispute? How is a future conflict resolved within BCH when it's saddled with IP?

This is my biggest fear, yet I don't see significant problems arising. Bitcoin Cash is currently being steered in the direction as envisioned by Satoshi. A universal ledger of global, P2P, sound money, digital cash. If someones IP gets in the way of that, by rent seeking, be sure Bitcoin will fork again to bypass it.

Despite all of this i'm not really convinced the debate premise was even valid? Rather than ask if IP is legitimate, maybe we should be asking for scientific study on what best methods incentivise innovation. If in a blockchain governed world, can IP be something tangible, and transferable?

Could innovation, patents and ideas become like building materials in a blockchain of IP, traceable and historically recorded in the knowledge based, computer language, running on top of the blockchain?

The debate reminded me of this fantastic lecture by Stephen Wolfram. The whole thing is great, but if you're short on time, the 10 mins from @26:00 is eye opening.


"As a civilisation we are starting to be able to mine stuff, out of the computational universe, and everybody gets to do that."

"Can you formulate your thought in a sufficiently smart way to a sufficiently smart computer?"

is this, "What will be valuable in society, when all of the basic work is done through the AI's?" "

Can we codify innovation into a knowledge based, blockchain governance model, through smart contracts? This takes the debate up another level of abstraction, rather than focus on the current flawed and inefficient IP world model.

 

[freetrader]

 

[awemany]

Are the TumbleBit guys BCH friendly? If not can, we somehow "invite them into the BCH ecosystem?"

I think fungibility of money is important and I think BTC/BCH are a bit lacking on that front. I don't think it needs a whole new currency though, "just' updates to the wallet software.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

@awemany
AFAIK they are hardcore core trolls, No2X hat wearers.

 

[hoaxChain]

There is a difference between kicking a disruptive kid out of class and censoring ideas. Thanks for raising your concern but unless there is a coherent idea or some relevant information that is being intentionally blocked it's not censorship sometimes it's more effective just to keep quiet and listen.

That is EXACTLY what Core/Theymos and Maxwell say about their disgraceful censorship!

One of my ideas:

hoaxChain research scientists and scholars discovered that SegWit was illegal. We published our findings in a comprehensive report titled:

"SegWit is illegal in the United States for transactions above $500 and anyone running SegWit enabled clients, which illegally removes the signature from transactions, could potentially be prosecuted"

Proof: http://archive.is/eruex <-- 21 June 2017 publication date

The fake company nChain copied our advanced research on their blog:

http://archive.is/cI2ho

This is dated 29 June 2017, 8 days later. This is 100% conclusive proof nChain is a fraud and copies our work at hoaxChain, where we do real research.

This is just one of many ideas censored on the /r/btc forum. Yet you guys refuse to speak up about it!

 

[awemany]

@hoaxChain : If you are Greg and miss the friction from the times past, please put some more effort in

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

My favorite topic, onion routing in the lolnet. Again answers by roasbeef:

Because the state of channels is broadcast to all nodes, an intermediate node knows the very limited set of viable hops before their predecessor and after their successor.

---

Not necessarily, advertising channels is strictly optional. Therefore a degree of plausible deniability exists. Even if within the adversary's public view of the network, there may not be an explicit following link, there may still be "shadow" channels that aren't publicly advertised, yet still utilized. Again, the assumption here is that with sufficiently high path diversity, the ability to make inferences (combined with the possible existence of shadow) channels is reduced.

So, in short: Yes, onion routing is bullshit because every channel update is broadcasted. But it is not bullshit, because theoretically, the start of the payment could come from a private channel the first hop has opened (that isn't known to the rest of the lolnet..).

Fuck everybody who is selling this privacy nightmare as a secure solution. Disgusting.

 

[AdrianX]

how does one find this screen?

 

[Bagatell]

@AdrianX

https://satoshisvisionconference.com/

 

[AdrianX]

Ok funny, the main page would not refresh to show the tickets button with an F5 refresh it was coming soon. Anyway someone on Reddit posted this https://satoshisvisionconference.com/tickets.html and voila ;-) just 99 bottles of beer on the wall.
[doublepost=1517412234][/doublepost]Just thinking about my purchase and having buyers remorse. I'm offloading BTC and accumulating BCH. Reflecting on Gresham's law, what I should have done is buy my ticket using BCH and not BTC. I should do spend and replace, and used my wallet's Shapeshift feature.

Thanks, @Mengerian and all those who have put this together.

 

[Bagatell]

I broke their website I hope they counted me as 98..

 

[Mengerian]

We just opened early-bird ticket sales for the confererence!

You are too quick @AdrianX ! ha ha, I'm announcing as fast as I can!

Bitcoin Unlimited members get a discounted rate, you can get a "coupon code" from Solex, that when entered should give you 50% off the full ticket price (33% off the early-bird price).

https://satoshisvisionconference.com/tickets.html

how does one find this screen?

When you buy a ticket, the system automatically generates a PDF as above with your name and other info filled in.
[doublepost=1517412685][/doublepost]@Bagatell PM me your info... I'll check on it for you