Bitcoin Unlimited - Ideas, arguments, and proposals

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
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I have already made an edited draft of the articles. :)

still making small changes here and there, not something that can be rushed.

I do not understand this part however, or exactly what was meant by it:

"Consensus is therefore an emergent property, objectively represented by the longest proof-of-work chain. This fact is an unassailable property of Bitcoin and cannot be changed by fiat"

I understand the first part, but what is meant by "cannot be changed by fiat", what can not be changed by fiat? consensus being an emergent property, or is it intended to mean fiat as in "by authority" can not change this emergent property of consensus? It is not clear, would be good to clarify this.
 

Peter R

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Aug 28, 2015
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It means that Bitcoin cannot be governed by top-down directives. For example, if it really requires Core to hold our hands and prevent us from easily running certain code, or listening to certain ideas, then Bitcoin is doomed to failure anyways.

I agree we could express this more clearly.
 

seweso

Member
Aug 19, 2015
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I have some questions:

What kind of resources do we have?
Do we have build servers?
Did we ask Mike Hearn to join?
What is the roadmap?
Should I change some content on /r/bitcoin_unlimited to point to something?
Do we have a graphical designer?
Do we need a who-is-who in the BU space?
Should I give Gandrewstone access to https://github.com/BitcoinUnlimited?
[doublepost=1448026448,1448025655][/doublepost]My graphical designer question seems to be answered already ;)
 

theZerg

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Aug 28, 2015
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> What kind of resources do we have?

Just what we bring to the table right now.

> Do we have build servers?

I have plenty of capability to run builds, but did you mean automated independent 3rd party? Aren't there web services for that?

> Did we ask Mike Hearn to join?

We have not approached anyone

> What is the roadmap?

There is a loose plan to release code that is lenient about accepting large blocks. I plan to write a formal BUIP about this this weekend.

> Should I change some content on /r/bitcoin_unlimited to point to something?

Would you transfer ownership of this subreddit to the President, when elected on Jan 15th?
If so, you can point to www.bitcoinunlimited.info

> Do we need a who-is-who in the BU space?

What do you mean?

(github question answered in other thread)
 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
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Here is the first part I edited, I underlined the parts that I changed. This is all just a suggestion, if you do not want to incorporate any of my changes that is fine.
Whether these corporate developers are intentionally acting against the long term success of Bitcoin is irrelevant. In cases of potential conflict of interest, the ethical and socially accepted behavior should be to recuse oneself from such a position of influence. Instead these developers insist on a poorly defined consensus for determining the development of a MIT licensed code base which they did not initially create. This tactic has had the opposite effect of recusal, giving themselves veto power over any changes. This has stalled improvements on the block size issue in the Bitcoin Core variant.

Bitcoin Unlimited perceives itself as an important element in the Bitcoin ecosystem. We believe our founding statutes are firmly based on the Satoshi's original vision. However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we will not assert centralized ownership of the protocol. Bitcoin unlimited aims at helping people assert and express their own freedom of choice.
"the ethical and socially accepted behavior should be to recuse oneself from such a position of influence." as was suggested this sentence has been toned down somewhat, I use the term ethical instead of moral because of the philosophical implication. Ethics should always be based on reason, whereas morals can be based on other things. hopefully this make it come across less "moralistic". I replaced "is" with "should" this is philosophically and realistically more accurate and also helps to further soften this statement. I added "such" just because it roles nicely in terms of the rhythm of the language. I also replaced the word determination with influence, since it is indeed a better way to describe what I think is the intention of what we are trying to express.

I also removed the word all in "stalled improvements on the block size" since you might be able to argue that some minor improvements have been made paving the way for an increased blocksize, playing devils advocate here but it is good to be as accurate as possible.

In my own writing I refer to the blocksize as a single word like this. its a funny thing, we are creating new words in this space, like blockchain, we stuck these two words together and they become one with new meaning, a new concept. It does not matter much either way how we express the word block size since its effect in terms of meaning does not change much, something to consider at least.

"Bitcoin unlimited aims at helping people assert and express their own freedom of choice." Finally I did add this sentence, not sure if you would like to include this or not, I thought it expresses the intention well and it follows logically after the previous statement, though I would understand that you might not want to include this, such a document should be made as simplistic as possible, I always thought that good philosophy is simple, sometimes it is indeed not worth complicating things more then they need to be.
 

theZerg

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There have been 2 requests for "influence" rather than "determination" so I changed it even though I prefer determination because a person who recuses him/herself is welcome to then attempt to "influence" the outcome (by research, open advocacy, etc).

I like your last sentence but I tried to flow it better:

However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we will not assert centralized ownership of the protocol. And within the Bitcoin Unlimited client, we aim to help people assert and express their own freedom of choice.

And before anyone hops on me for starting a sentence with "And", please realize that it is perfectly valid to do so so long as the sentence itself is complete.

I made these changes (anything I didn't mention I made verbatim) but you won't see them until I push which I'll do when more changes accrue.

Originally I wrote block size as one word too. But another editor disagreed. And I changed my mind -- really it is not such a fundamental new thing like the blockchain so I think that it doesn't deserve its own word.
 

VeritasSapere

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Nov 16, 2015
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It is true that a person is free to influence the outcome even after they have been recursed, however not being in a "position of influence" at least lessens their power to influence the outcome.

I usually always avoid starting a sentence with "And", but you are right it does flow better. :)

I even tried phrasing it without the "And", it definitely does sound better that way. lol

Fair enough on the block size spelling, tomato, tomato right.

Thank you for being so inclusive in the process of writing these articles, I like to think that more minds working together will generate greater wisdom. :)
 

Peter R

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Aug 28, 2015
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Should we add a note somewhere in the Federation Articles that Bitcoin Unlimited is NOT hostile to other implementations and in fact supports their right to exist? What I mean is add enough information so that it's clear that we'd never turn around and call some new implementation an "alt-coin" or an "attack on Bitcoin." That is, put it in writing that it would be against our federation to act in the way that supporters of Blockstream's implementation of the protocol (Core) did towards XT.
 
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theZerg

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Hmm... that's the purpose of these quotes from the introductory remarks. Tell me what you think:

"As a foundational principle, we assert that Bitcoin is and should be whatever its users define by the code they run and the rules they vote for with their hash power."

... and at the very end (of the intro)...

"However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we will not assert centralized ownership of the protocol."
 

Peter R

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Aug 28, 2015
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I suppose we have already strongly implied it; here's an idea for how we can make it more explicit:

OLD END OF INTRO:

"Bitcoin Unlimited perceives itself as an important element in the Bitcoin ecosystem. We believe our founding statutes are firmly based on Satoshi's original vision. However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we will not assert centralized ownership of the protocol."

PROPOSED CHANGE:

"Bitcoin Unlimited perceives itself as an important element in the Bitcoin ecosystem. We believe our founding statutes are firmly based on Satoshi's original vision. However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we recognize the right for alternative implementations to exist and we encourage their development. Bitcoin Unlimited will never assert centralized ownership of the protocol."

(Not sure if "encourage" is the right word though and I don't particularly love what I wrote either.)
 
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theZerg

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Its pretty good I think. I'll take it as you are suggesting. But maybe @Zangelbert Bingledack or @VeritasSapere could try to give it some punch and zing? I mean this intro has to have the quotables :)... the media is not going to be repeating the details of how elections are handled.
 
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Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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Simple and sober as per Peter's revision may be the way to go here, but if you want a quotable maybe something like, "It would be antithetical to the very concept of Bitcoin to assert centralized ownership over the protocol." That would probably require recasting the whole paragraph though.

(Note that this is slightly inaccurate since "the protocol" is a moving target.)

A more impassioned version of the Articles in general could take cues from the Declaration of Independence and Thomas Payne's Common Sense. These are powerful works that really embroiled and motivated people by showing them the hypocrisy and lazy contradictions of arguments made by those in power positions. They also managed to do so while maintaining an air of eminent correctness and objectivity.

Alternatively such a tone could be reserved for a separate piece where it may be more appropriate.
 
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theZerg

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It means that Bitcoin cannot be governed by top-down directives. For example, if it really requires Core to hold our hands and prevent us from easily running certain code, or listening to certain ideas, then Bitcoin is doomed to failure anyways.

I agree we could express this more clearly.
I deliberately used the term "fiat" there to underscore how if Bitcoin could be thus changed it would become similar to "fiat" currencies... so please try to preserve that term.
 
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VeritasSapere

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Nov 16, 2015
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I suppose we have already strongly implied it; here's an idea for how we can make it more explicit:

OLD END OF INTRO:

"Bitcoin Unlimited perceives itself as an important element in the Bitcoin ecosystem. We believe our founding statutes are firmly based on Satoshi's original vision. However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we will not assert centralized ownership of the protocol."

PROPOSED CHANGE:

"Bitcoin Unlimited perceives itself as an important element in the Bitcoin ecosystem. We believe our founding statutes are firmly based on Satoshi's original vision. However, we acknowledge that Bitcoin is fundamentally a decentralized system and thus we recognize the right for alternative implementations to exist and we encourage their development. Bitcoin Unlimited will never assert centralized ownership of the protocol."

(Not sure if "encourage" is the right word though and I don't particularly love what I wrote either.)
I love the proposed change, I agree. We might be able to find a way to phrase it better but for now I think that is great. It is better to be thorough expressing our beliefs and principles compared to being overly concerned that we are being to long winded.
[doublepost=1448211559][/doublepost]
Its pretty good I think. I'll take it as you are suggesting. But maybe @Zangelbert Bingledack or @VeritasSapere could try to give it some punch and zing? I mean this intro has to have the quotables :)... the media is not going to be repeating the details of how elections are handled.
Yeah, I am still in the process of editing the articles, I have an ongoing draft copy I am working on, though I wont post any of it here until I feel very confident about it, I am also a habitual re editor lol. In terms of punch and zing I think it will come out of the writing as much as is possible through the process we are currently engaged in.
[doublepost=1448211945,1448211256][/doublepost]
Simple and sober as per Peter's revision may be the way to go here, but if you want a quotable maybe something like, "It would be antithetical to the very concept of Bitcoin to assert centralized ownership over the protocol." That would probably require recasting the whole paragraph though.

(Note that this is slightly inaccurate since "the protocol" is a moving target.)

A more impassioned version of the Articles in general could take cues from the Declaration of Independence and Thomas Payne's Common Sense. These are powerful works that really embroiled and motivated people by showing them the hypocrisy and lazy contradictions of arguments made by those in power positions. They also managed to do so while maintaining an air of eminent correctness and objectivity.

Alternatively such a tone could be reserved for a separate piece where it may be more appropriate.
I absolutely agree with using the declaration of independence and Thomas Payne's Common Sense as aesthetic and practical examples of what we are trying to achieve here. After all common sense arguments are sufficient to argue against the tyranny that Core seems to be advocating. It is these enlightenment philosophies that guide my thinking and I am sure it must have been an important motivation for this project after all. Philosophically we are in good company, which reaffirms my believe that we are on the right side of history.
[doublepost=1448212524][/doublepost]
I deliberately used the term "fiat" there to underscore how if Bitcoin could be thus changed it would become similar to "fiat" currencies... so please try to preserve that term.
It is funny that you mention this phrase, I still have not found a way to phrase it better. The more I look at it the more the use of the word "fiat" in this sentence grows on me. Since it also has the double meaning of authority and like you said what defines "fiat" currencies. So I do actually agree with you that we should keep that word. I might be able to phrase the sentence better but I will have to wait and see what happens when the inspiration strikes me.
 
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VeritasSapere

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Nov 16, 2015
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I have some more suggestions for the articles of federation. :)

Like before I have underlined any changes I introduced.
Bitcoin Unlimited adheres to Satoshi Nakamoto's vision for a system that could scale up to a worldwide payment network and a decentralized monetary protocol. Transactions are grouped into blocks and recorded on an unforgettable global ledger known as the Bitcoin blockchain. The blockchain is accessible to anyone in the world, secured by cryptography, and maintained by the most powerful single-purpose computing network ever created.
These changes are purely aesthetic, they do not really change the meaning of this paragraph at all, just more variation in the language, spelling mistake fixed, and questioning whether the word blockchain should be spelled with a capital when not at the start of a sentence.

It is understood that instant (0-confirmation) transactions are intrinsically less secure compared to confirmed transactions. transactions that have only been confirmed once are less secure compared to transactions that have been confirmed twice and so forth along the continuum. Since 0-confirmation transactions are practically useful for people, we encourage innovations that enhance their security without undermining other key properties of the Bitcoin network.
This is also purely an aesthetic change, I simply just articulated the paragraph in long form. introduced the word "and" for better flow and replaced "to" with "for" since I think it better describes the meaning of what we are trying to convey. I also removed "the" in "without undermining the other key..." I think this flows better.

Resistance to censorship and security improves with adoption. The more actors that are in a peer-2-peer network, the harder it becomes to gain control of an influential percentage. This is in part why adoption is paramount, it also further aligns with the the principles of decentralization and financial freedom which should also be considered as important principles to be upheld.
Firstly another aesthetic change, again just making the sentences longer. The bottom line however does represent a fundamental change, well more like introducing new principles, and further making the claim that these principles also align with increased adoption. I wrote an article explaining this in more detail, I presumed that most people here also agreed with this understanding. Considering that I am introducing new concepts it would be good to discuss this or in the case if anyone here disagrees we should not include these principles in the articles of federation. It is better to keep things simple so that most people can agree with its entirety. Though decentralization and financial freedom would be worthy principles to explicitly state in this document.
 
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Bagatell

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Aug 28, 2015
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questioning whether the word blockchain should be spelled with a capital when not at the start of a sentence
I can't see a convincing grammatical case for that and it strikes me as a little pompous.
 

VeritasSapere

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Nov 16, 2015
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This is why I brought it up, the word blockchain should indeed not be spelled with a capital when not at the start of a sentence, since it is not a name, unlike Bitcoin. Curious to see what everyone thinks though.