How many Bitcoin Unlimited full nodes do you run?

How many BU nodes do you run?


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    13

Hyena

Member
Feb 27, 2017
42
60
As of yesterday I am running 3 independent BU full nodes. They are geographically placed in different locations and I have physical access to the devices.

I'm not a miner but this is what I can do to make Bitcoin great again. I think every one of us should install more BU nodes than just one, especially after those attacks on the BU network. Just make sure the nodes are on different networks/ISPs so that you won't lose all of them at once during a local power failure, for example.
 
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bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
I don' have any Bitcoin Unlimited nodes. I'm not convinced yet changing over to Bitcoin Unlimited is the way to go,

Roger Ver doesn't seem too trustworthly, and the Chinese dude... well he's in China, the government can easily control him, and China isn't too trustworthy either

My gut feeling says to stick with the Core, so I'm sticking to Bitcoin Core
for now.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
This is not about people or politics, it's about removing the block limit in an apolitical way.

Core may be better code but it doesn't support removing the block limit.

Core can't force anyone to use code, they need to sell it to miners, this process has become very political.

Core supports are being hostile to BU because miners are choosing BU.
 

Hyena

Member
Feb 27, 2017
42
60
@bitbee99
Ideally I'd run a Core node that has SegWit disabled (does not even realy segwit TXs) and could allow blocks up to 2 MiB. So that would be my custom configuration. I don't care about BU for political reasons, I only use it because it allows me to vote for bigger blocks and it is very much like core in other senses. When we get bigger blocks Core will update their wallet software and I will most likely switch back to core. I just can't stand SegWit and small block limitation. No politics, no need to trust Roger.
 
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bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
I don't really understand the technical aspect of what is going on, i don't understand why the block size matters,

One thing i did hear, is that if the block size is bigger, eventually people won't be able to run nodes from their computer because they will need much more power to run nodes, so in this case, the only people who will be able to run nodes are big node farms, so this will kick out the little guys, and then when this happens the nodes will be more centralized,

I don't see why people are not happy with the current bitcoin system,

it is working fine for far, the fees are starting to raise, yes, but they are not overly expensive,

I tried to send 5 dollars the other day and my fee was going to be 0.80cents for normal send, so all i did was adjust it, and my fee was 0.08 cents, it took about 15 hours to start confirming

so yes i understand the fees are starting to be expensive, but if you can wait, it's not so expensive, still a lot cheaper than banks and western union,

so i don't see the big problem, bitcoin is getting better and better, don't know why roger ver and that chinese guy want to make their own bitcoin
, it sounds very suspicious


i don;t know much in depth of the technical things of bitcoin, but my gut is telling me to follow what andreas does and not roger ver and the chinese guy

and andreas is currently on the core side, so im sticking to the core side for now
 

bitsein

Member
Feb 19, 2017
34
48
15 hours to send a transactions is absurd. I cannot believe you even think this is anything except absurd. Bitcoin is designed to send transactions that are confirmed after 10 minutes. In other words, Bitcoin is broken.
 

bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
Still way faster than using a bank, and much cheaper, Yes it shouldn't take that long, but bitcoin is new, and it was faster before probably because there wasn't that many users, Its still a very convenient to use it,

I don't think it's broken, but yes it does have problems, but im not convinced about this roger ver guy, he seems very suspicious
 

torusJKL

Active Member
Nov 30, 2016
497
1,156
When I started you could get transactions with 0 fees in the next block. :)

For us in the first world the fees are maybe still ok somehow. But the idea was to have Bitcoin available for everyone on our planet also in the third world (for all the un-banked). And for them todays fees are astronomical high.

In addition it would be great to have 0-confirmation payments back.
A few years ago you could pay your beer with Bitcoins.
Which bar will accept a payment that takes 15 hours to confirm? (if it confirms)
 
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bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
i remember the 0 fee transactions as well, shortly after the got rid of them, i was upset,

you are right, bitcoin is not good for most stores anymore,

I was thinking about that, maybe at first it was cost efficient to give free fees, but since the halving, maybe the miners are not breaking even, so they have to charge higher fees,

but why isn't there any miners who do the transactions for free? why can't we do the transactions for free from our desktops? i've been running a node for couple years, why can't i do it for free,

i heard it's because my computer isn't strong enough? just like i said before in my thread, if they make the block size bigger, than my computer wont be powerful enough?

it seems like the more people use it, the more power we need, and eventually leads to centralized

maybe it's the nsa trying to centralized bitcoin, like it said i don't know what's going on, but everything seems fishy,

maybe its time to get out of bitcoin and change it to fiat, the problem is i don't like fiat,

so i will just watch and see
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
One thing i did hear, is that if the block size is bigger, eventually people won't be able to run nodes from their computer because they will need much more power to run nodes, so in this case, the only people who will be able to run nodes are big node farms, so this will kick out the little guys, and then when this happens the nodes will be more centralized,
@bitbee99 this gets said a lot - but you need to put in in perspective. In India there are thousands of tech companies who could run a node with 20MB blocks - with no problem at all. There are an estimated 1,200,000,000 people and 400,000 bitcoin users. there are exactly 7 nodes. The reason people run nodes has nothing to do with block size, it's got to do with the need to run a node. If we keep the block size at 1MB and move fee paying transactions to layer 2 networks, will more people in India need to run a node or less? If more people store more wealth on the bitcoin blockchain will more people want to run a node?

The cost of running a node today is not going to get cheaper yet most internet connections can handle 8MB blocks, Internet users today download 2MB on average per web page. (if you cant can't afford to read 4 web pages in 10 minus - you probably don't need to support the next global financial system)

A data center is a scary though but if I buy an $300 8TB HD today in 10 years time if we grow to 16MB blocks, the disk would still not be full. In ten years time I won't upgrade from a home PC to a data center to prepare for the next 10 years (if I do have too lets grow bitcoin for 10 years then limit the block size)

I don't see why people are not happy with the current bitcoin system
99.999 of bitcoin owners are happy, all holders are for sure. If you want bitcoin to stop growing then put pressure on miners to limit transaction capacity. - most users want a little slice of a gigantic pie. A bigger slice of a small $20,000,000,000 pie is what they have now.

If you want bitcoin to grow and accommodate more users do we need a transaction to be limited to 2000 transactions per 10 minutes?

If we ask why 2000 transactions per 10 minutes, there are no good reasons except the nodes who enforce the rules are enforcing that arbitrary rule. So why not change it?

Nodes have no incentive to change the limit, the more the demand the higher their income. The problem is. 95% of there income is subsidized, the high fees only pay for +- 5% of the transaction cost. This subsidy is by design a random distribution method to help spread bitcoin adoption. Subsidies always distort markets. The bitcoin subsidy does too. It distorts the cost of security, It distorts the cost to transact. (growth requires more transactions and more security.) limiting transaction volume limits subsidized adoption. the subsidy diminished over time - we need to scales of economy to make transaction affordably and maximize security. Is limiting transactions volume the best way to use this distribution subsidy?

don't know why roger ver and that chinese guy want to make their own bitcoin
, it sounds very suspicious


i don;t know much in depth of the technical things of bitcoin, but my gut is telling me to follow what andreas does and not roger ver and the chinese guy
Trace Mayer = supports option 1 below
Roger Ver = supports option 2 below
Andreas Antonopoulos = supports option 3 below.

Don't follow people or code, you have to do your own critical analysts - bitcoin is a value exchange protocol that is secured by incentives (read the white paper ). the only way to change the rules is for developers to put political pressure on the nodes to change the rules.

the developers are not part of the incentive design - the mining nodes enforce the rules, developers have to convince nodes to change the rules.

the rules that support maximum growth and ensure the incentives support the protocol require removing the transaction limit.

as a user we have a choice:

1) do nothing - bitcoin growth is limited to the equilibrium we have now.

2) Has the majority of miners and community support. (trade off = mining competition increases bitcoin security - bitcoin incentive design is not changed - miners must remove the limit)

3) Has the majority of developers support (trade off = mining competition = Layer 2 growth at the expense of bitcoin security. - bitcoin incentive design must changed - miners must use new code)

2) being the free market position with maximum bitcoin distribution and growth.

3) being the choice for central planers where competition for market share among miners drives growth for layer 2 transaction networks, the difference between 2 and 3 is in 2 mining competition for market share pushing up security what drives new growth where as in 3 mining competition pushes profits to layer 2 networks and there is no positive feedback look for security and growth.
 
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bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
thank you for the explanation, it all seems way out of my technical understanding, i can't debate much more about what you wrote because i have nothing useful to say about it because i don't understand bitcoin in depth, i need to read more and understand it, your points seem truthful, but i can't verify if it is true, but i also can't verify if the core is telling the truth, i am in the middle

unfortunately since i am not skilled enough to determine which one would be better, i have to follow what the smartest person i know is doing, and do what he is doing, so critical analysts says for now, to follow andreas, if he moves to bitcoin unlimited then so will i,

but from watching videos, i think andreas is the smartest
but what i don't understand, is if bitcoin unlmited is better, then why isn't andreas on roger ver's side?
shouldn't they be side by side on bitcoin together, andreas is trustable, i haven't seen any reason not to trust andreas,


1. i heard rumors that roger ver might of been infiltrated by the bankers, that he got offered millions and millions of dollars and a visa back to the u.s.a to destroy bitcoin, now im not saying it's true or not, but it seems it could be true, i'm not so sure about that roger ver guy

2. now the chinese guy, he doesn't need to be infiltrated, since he lives in china, he does what their government wants him to do, if he doesn't he will be killed, and i know the chinese government doesn't like freedom, so bitcoin is their enemy,

3. The fact that we don't know who created bitcoin is fishy, maybe it's a plan by the a secret government to start bitcoin out to be a "freedom currency" and then eventually take control of it, if we give power to the miners they could easily control bitcoin, i'm not sure what's going on,

but i will keep reading to verify both agreements on core and unlimited,

the only thing, is that its going to be hard to beat bitcoin, even if what you say is true, even if they try to fork
most people will stay with what they know if they don't understand, since i don't understand, and i can't verify what is going on, i will stay with core for now,

but i am on the side that doesn't give control of our money to governments, i hate governments for stealing our money
 

Hyena

Member
Feb 27, 2017
42
60
@bitbee99
people not being able to run full nodes with bigger blocks is a lie. you should not use it as an argument. it's a disgusting lie because SegWitCoin supporters have nothing actually to say against BU, so they start making things up.

Run your full node with pruning mode set and it can consume as little as 550 MiB of disk space. When we get this block size increase BU team can start working on the headers-first technical solution to block propagation slowness. Then all blocks will reach all nodes at the same time no matter how big the block is. That's it, there's NOTHING to really worry about when the blocks get bigger.

SegWitCoin supporters are like Hilary Clinton supporters. They cheat, they lie, they are sore losers and they do desperate things to enforce their minority will on the majority. Andreas and other "celebrities" are used as a tool to manipulate the public opinion of the people who don't do their own research. Roger Ver is legit, just watch his videos, he wants to change the world a better place.
 

torusJKL

Active Member
Nov 30, 2016
497
1,156
thank you for the explanation, it all seems way out of my technical understanding, i can't debate much more about what you wrote because i have nothing useful to say about it because i don't understand bitcoin in depth, i need to read more and understand it, your points seem truthful, but i can't verify if it is true, but i also can't verify if the core is telling the truth, i am in the middle
Actually at this point it is more about economics than technology.
The block size is not the real issue.

Even with SegWit blocks could get up to approx. 4MB in size (because you put data outside of the 1MB part) but nobody at Core complains about that fact.
 
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Francis GASCHET

New Member
Mar 12, 2017
18
17
Dreux (France)
Hi all,

Web pages with current technology have frequently a 2MB and more size. And nobody think that the web will crash !

I've currently 2 BU nodes and I'm starting a third. All in different places and different networks
One of them runs also a Tor exit node (the third will do as well).
 

bitbee99

Member
Mar 19, 2017
57
16
How is Andreas a "celebrity" and how is he "manipulating" people. All of his videos are great. He seems like an honest man i haven't seen videos of him saying stupid or unintelligent things.

I've seen many of his videos and also Rogers Ver, roger ver talks like a normal guy, he doesn't seem to know alot of technical backgrounds on things, andreas seems to know a lot more than roger ver

i feel i learn more from listening to andreas talk then rogers ver talk
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
This is not about authorities it's about the apolitical rules of bitcoin and who should control them.

Who would you rather be in control Andreas or Ver?
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
o_O @bitbee99 you failed the critical thinking bitcoin test.

The correct answer is: Neither. bitcoin is a decentralized system, no one should be in control. Below was the framework in which I asked the question.

This is not about authorities it's about the apolitical rules of bitcoin and who should control them.
Here is a video of Andreas telling people to focus on the technology - he goes on to imply it's the code written by developers who are in control.
Read the white paper don't take my word for it. The developers have no say in the governing of bitcoin. they serve miners and users. The mining nodes implement the rules. -

We have a choice - we can all agree bitcoin is dead and a failed idea and change it, if we do Andreas could be correct, or we can carry on using bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not dead, it's under attack, not from BU miners, but from people who don't understand who decides the rules. Bitcoin uses an apolitical mechanism to implement rules, and well designed incentives to keep interests of those who keep the rules aligned with users who govern the system.

Developers use the traditional consensus mechanism of lawyers, letters of intent and political lobbying to change rules, Andreas has interests that are aligned with those of lobbyist.

Satoshi White Paper said:
They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism.
the 1MB limit is not a needed rule.
 
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