Easy resolution to the debate using spinoffs?

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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The comment below proposes a way to get all the purported benefits of both small and large blocksize limits without the purported downsides of making either choice:


This is in several ways more attractive than the fork arbitrage idea I've been pounding the table about, because it allows people to use both systems exactly when and exactly for as long as they are both useful, without messing with hodlers at all (crucial!).

Besides a few possible reservations regarding the timing of spinoff ledger-snapshots, this model looks to enable something no one seems to think possible now because of failing to fully internalize the fact that Bitcoin is economically speaking just a ledger and set of private-public keypairs controlling those ledger entries (along with the coin issuance schedule). Also that two ledgers are functionally the same as just one ledger, in a way that the "split" can be abstracted away from the user experience. And finally that preserving the investments of people who already bought into the World Wide Ledger is the only thing that's necessary to maintain Bitcoin's monetary network effect (new investors would have to choose their ratio of coins to buy in the two forks, but present investors lose no upside from that; the investor promise is as it has always been).

Most people understand none of these three points, so they miss what I think is a beautiful solution if it works technically. Indeed the debate would be over, and perhaps almost all similar debates would never need to happen other than as debates about wise investment decisions. This seems like the ultimate expression of "Bitcoin is a creature of the market." Not only would multiple implementations prevent every node from failing at once, it would prevent even any price loss when it happens! (unless you weighted your portfolio to favor the failing implementation)

This means Bitcoin can effectively have both a tiny cap and a huge cap (or no cap), because Bitcoin is the ledger and its monetary parameters, not the protocol. The motto that kicked off the drive for Bitcoin Unlimited was, "The blocksize cap is an aspect of the transport layer that was falsely considered to be in the consensus layer." Or, "The blocksize cap snuck into the consensus layer when it should have been in the transport layer." Similarly perhaps we say something like, "The non-monetary aspects of the protocol are part of the ledger maintenance function that were falsely considered to be inextricably tied to the ledger itself." Or, "The non-monetary aspects of the protocol snuck into our conception of what Bitcoin is, when they should have been just part of how the ledger is serviced."

In other words, different implementations of the protocol are just different competing service layers built on top of the basic ledger layer. Again, since two ledgers are in principle no different than one (a collection of balances tied to keypairs along with another collection of balances tied to [EDIT: those same] keypairs is still just a collection of balances tied to keypairs), diverging ledger forks do not functionally imply multiple ledgers from the perspective of investors who have already bought in at any given time, which is all that matters.

Functionally, from the point of view of every already-invested user at any given time, there remains one universal ledger of civilization, no matter how many protocols service it. Wouldn't it be neat if Core were like Breadwallet, just another service operating on top of Bitcoin? That's the implication here, if I'm not mistaken.

Also, although the reddit comment says merchants would need to demand payment in both coins at once in order remain neutral (investment-wise), which seems a hassle because you'd have to wait for confirmations in both forks, this isn't strictly true: insofar as there is a stable market price ratio between the two, merchants can accept payment in whatever is most convenient and cheap (likely the big block fork, but who knows) and rebalance their portfolio periodically if they chose to.

Some issues with spinoffs:

1) The spinoff timing is crucial because there has to be a clean Schelling point for when to take a snapshot of the ledger. For example if there are several spinoffs that are all the same except their snapshot timing differs by a few blocks, how would people choose one? There would have to be a big advertising push. Or would there? Perhaps there is a way the market would sort it out that I'm not seeing yet.

2) Related the previous point, a spinoff would likely not happen until there was enough of a "crisis" situation to fuel a sufficiently clean Schelling consensus and also entice plenty of investors to arbitrage the two ledgers against one another.

3) There are probably some disruptive implications for the mining industry in the event the split becomes permanent. For example, if the spinoff uses a different mining algo and the coin price ratios end up at 50/50, the current crop of miners would instantly lose half their profitability and there would be a race to develop ASICs for the new algo. He halved hashrate wouldn't lower security for Bitcoin, though, because each set of mining infrastructure would only be securing half the total universal ledger's value. This may mean spinoffs are a scaling solution all by themselves, since you can have as many spinoffs (i.e., ledger-servicing clients) as you want. Alternatively, if the spinoff uses same mining algo, I'm not sure how 51% attack risk might be affected. However, if one spinoff is 51% attacked, neutral investors lose nothing so it actually makes the system more robust from an investor's standpoint. You have to kill ALL the ledger-servicing clients to have a chance of harming the ledger or the price.
 
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AdrianX

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Aug 28, 2015
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to test the hypothesis, would it function if the spin-off was reversed and Core returned the temporary state to unlimited and spin-off was the 1MB limited version.

if so I'd encourage doing it that way.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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I think an implication of my conception above is that once a spinoff happens there is no principled way to elevate one version above the other and say one is "Bitcoin" and the other is a "spinoff." They're both Bitcoin or both spinoffs, whichever way you want to look at it. The only thing that actually matters is their relative prices (the price of coins in each of the two ledgers). If they are similar, there are really no grounds for raising one above the other; they are on equal footing stewarding half the ledger each.
 

ImmortanSteve

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Jan 30, 2016
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I like the spinoff idea conceptually, but I am trying to work out how it might be implemented. Have you thought through the following?
  1. How would one track the price of the spinoff? I assume that exchanges would have to agree to list the spinoff as a separate coin so it could be traded?
  2. How would coins in the spinoff (let's use big block as an example) be differentiated from 1 mB block coins? I'm not a programmer, but would assume you'd need some kind of marker to properly identify the spinoff coins.
  3. How would the other software (wallets and nodes for example) cope with the spinoff? Would they also need software upgrades and a new parallel network to handle the spinoff coins?
  4. If the above is true, wouldn't this place the spinoff at a relative disadvantage? It's using the same ledger, but if all the other parts of the ecosystem need an upgrade in order to use it I think this would hurt its chances of success, even if the spinoff protocol was generally desirable by a majority of users.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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@ImmortanSteve

Good questions.

1) Yes, as you say, just like altcoins are listed. Functionally or CS-wise, a spinoff is an altcoin, even though current-investor-wise it is night and day. This is probably why more CS-oriented folks have not understood how game-changing this approach is.

2) Not sure but I recall Meni Rosenfeld (and some others) mentioned a way that seems fairly trivial to implement. Anyone more technical feel free to jump in here.

3) Same as any how multiwallet handling altcoins works, unless I'm missing something. Wallets might also try to autobalance the portfolio weightings of the two spinoffs if the user desires, maybe via a DEX when that tech is available.

4) For wallets using both I guess so, but at worst it seems you could just have two wallets, much as you might have a Bitcoin wallet and a Litecoin wallet now. If the spinoff weren't even a big enough deal to get wallets modified to handle it, it's unlikely exchanges would be on board for the arbitrage or that the spinoff would get enough attention anyway. It has to be a pretty big deal, like something on par with the Classic proposed fork.
 
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