Bitcoin Core Open Letter/Request For Comments

dlareg

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Feb 19, 2016
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**Originally was going to post this in the "Gold Collapsing Bitcoin Up" discussion but decided to post here and link it**

This may have been tried before, or be futile, but I was considering this idea and respectfully submit it here for consideration. This mainly comes out of the frustration of never getting real answers out of the Core team.

It appears to me that so many people here in this forum have extremely good points/questions that the Core team basically never answers in any accountable manner (I'm thinking Peter R, cypherdoc, solex, and many many more--see huge thread referred to above). Some are raised here, perhaps Twitter, perhaps Reddit. Core either just ignores, forces the discussion into one of their controlled, censored forums, or to a place where their gang can jump in and bury the discussion or spew untruths that are not fact checked.

In fact Core has never even responded to various highly public essays from Gavin and Mike Hearn that had logical and well-thought-out arguments over the past year.

What if there was to be a detailed and thorough list of say 25 (give or take) technical questions created here and posed to the core team and placed online somewhere like Medium as an open letter? These would be quite detailed and thorough questions on various different topics and written in a professional/academic manner. We could use categories such as Satoshi's vision, economic policy, technical issues in scaling, etc. all posed in the Socratic method based on all of their publicly available statements, direct quotes, and roadmaps.

A basic format could be agreed upon with them in posting the public questions. They would be given say a week or more to respond in writing whereupon their answers would be posted publicly. Then another period of time would be given for the questioners here to create responses/rebuttals which would then also be posted publicly.

Then again they would have a week to respond back and answers again posted publicly. Probably at that point after two question and response cycles the debate would be closed unless otherwise agreed on. Perhaps closing statements would be allowed.

It would essentially be like a moderated presidential debate format except it would happen in written form over a longer period of time so that proper research/rebuttals can be formulated and the facts checked. This would avoid the typical "gotcha" games of verbal argument and people spewing random factoids with no data to back it up.

If they did not agree to answer the questions posed, pressure could be put on them through social media and various places to "respond to the open questions". And in fact it would be very telling if they did not respond especially if the questions were professional and fact-based.

My thoughts are they avoid such things because they know logically they have no ground to stand on and it is only through avoidance, ganging up, subterfuge, appeal to authority, and censorship that they are able to maintain their "advantage".

The miners could be given a chance to see what happens in a real open forum where they don't get to have the tight PR/disinfo machine at work. And perhaps just seeing the questions would get people thinking about the various major holes in their scaling plan/overall philosophy/economic policy. I feel since they are claiming to be the one and only true Bitcoin, they are then in a position to have to answer these public requests for comment.

Downside is it may be some hard work and require attention from some of the "heavy hitters" here. But in the end, it may create a very interesting dialog or at minimum public record of where Core really stands and many of these topics they simply avoid.

Anyway--I humbly submit this idea here and of course feel free to disagree or speak your mind at will.

Respectfully,
Dlareg
 

solex

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Aug 22, 2015
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@dlareg
Your proposal for a debate by written points is indeed a constructive approach. I can easily think of lots of questions for which clear answers are needed.

There is a matter of context though. Do you think progress can be made considering these?

Scalability

In the block size debate there is a noticeable schism between main-chain and off-chain objectives. It is hard to argue a block size increase for scalability to people who want all the scaling to be done off-chain as much as possible. Delay preserves the status quo and forces off-chain scaling or bust. So main-chain scalers are at a disadvantage.

Incentives

The incentive for all Bitcoiners is a better financial system after 40 years of fiat currency and its problems like perpetual inflation, debt addiction, and wealth transfers worsening inequality. However, this is secondary, the principal incentive for investors is capital appreciation. A one-time personal gain from the worldwide transition from fiat to crypto.

If this was a common ground then matters would be clearer, but there are further incentives which align Core Dev and Blockstream.
Core Dev want to preserve their position and status conferred by their control of the reference client, so this makes off-chain scaling preferable, as a hard-fork for main-chain scaling puts their status at risk.
Blockstream want to profit by taking fees from off-chain services, so they want changes like segwit to more easily enable their op-codes and script version updates. They also have the vague idea that full blocks creates a "push" sending users towards off-chain solutions.

Ordinary Bitcoiners do not have status, salary and shareholding dependent on the above. The adage about a person believing what their salary depends upon is a major factor here, and while the incentives do not align I wonder if the debate can ever be concluded.
 
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freetrader

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Dec 16, 2015
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My opinion is that re: Bitcoin scaling and incentives for growth, it is not Blockstream/Core nor the miners that we should try to engage - it's the rest of the public.

Blockstream/Core have proven that they are unwilling to compromise on their roadmap (the latest conference resulting in no noticeable change to their plans). The arguments have been hashed out (forgive me) over many mailing lists, forums and other social media. The public record exists, and I think there must be a better use of our time than adding to the mountains of evidence.
 
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dlareg

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Feb 19, 2016
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Thanks everyone for your replies. For me it's been a challenging 48 hours watching this preposterous "consensus" roundtable unfold. And I do certainly think this idea on one hand is quite well a waste of time for the reason that BlockstreamCore is fundamentally dishonest/compromised as @Bagatell indicated. They portray themselves as honest participants in an open discussion about how to advance Bitcoin. But if you judge them based on their actions you see they are incredibly deceptive and have been working strategically to execute a hidden agenda actively for quite a long time. It is quite simple for them to steer the conversation by coming up with endless seemingly technical objections to any proposal as Mike Hearn detailed in great length and all of us have seen first hand. At the same time have "control" of the code and continue to execute their plan--shameless and unstoppable.

But on the other hand as freetrader indicated it is the public that needs to be engaged and I very much agree. One thing that has happened with all of the censorship, is on-chain scaling proponents have been driven aside and made to look as if they are an extremist, "angry", deluded minority. And of course who would not feel angry to see what is going on. So in another sense this open letter idea is more of a PR move intended to show the public what is really going on here, that it is not a minority, fringe, extreme point of view being pushed. And to do so in a professional manner, that can't be marginalized as a angry rant from non-developers or nut jobs. Get out of the reddit-style "gotcha" games (which of course I am very guilty of myself).

Even among the Bitcoin press and the various pundits, I feel there is the tendency to paint the "hard forkers" as a dangerous fringe. And that we should "stop the personal attacks". And "be nice". However, from the perspective of people who see the insidiousness of the situation, it is obviously not about just playing nice and coming to agreement. In some ways for "us" it is turning into an all out war. How can you compromise and come to agreement with people who are, forgive me, liars. It's like putting people in charge of a company who fundamentally believe the company should just be shut down. And then saying you should just "work with them". It's insane!

And then of course you have the complexity of the situation. For those with deep technical understanding of Bitcoin, the multi-year debates, the various arguments and casts of characters involved, it is obviously pretty clear cut and all of the evidence is there. But at the same time I feel there is a lack of well-thought out synthesis of the various pieces of evidence that would walk somebody new through the various nuances and end up at a logical conclusion, perhaps for even a non-technical audience. So they could actually see for themselves instead of just jumping on the seemingly plausible picture painted by CoreStream. I am not sure what people's thoughts are about Hearn, but I actually enjoyed many of his essays about the scaling debate. It was easy for CoreStream to write him off as an angry crackpot who just didn't want to cooperate. However, none of his basic issues were ever addressed to my knowledge by anybody. Many people in the public are just unknowably succumbing to CoreStream's propaganda and because of censorship there is nowhere from them to hear the truth.

People are also like "just go invest in a crypto currency with developers you agree with" without seeing how BlockStream actually came in and took over and began rewriting it all with totally new rules. With deception. And incrementalism. Slowly step by step introducing changes to advance their goals and cripple the original vision. All the time claiming consensus. It continues to unfold in front of our faces. Bitcoin is the cryptocurrency that was able to bootstrap itself miraculously and has come so far. So now we just give up? That's probably exactly what they want!

So alas I guess what I am thinking would be how to create a full-court PR assault that could not be marginalized as easily or written of by the press/public as easily. That would actually begin to step people through the logical progression with an argument backed by evidence to come to a conclusion. I am certain if people were to see it in that unbiased way that it would open their eyes to a different understanding of the real dynamics at play here.

I certainly don't want to be the arm chair no-action guy that just comes around and says "you guys should do this" and that is not what I am intending here. I supposed this whole consideration is just a thinking out loud session. Fundamentally how can we push forth a communication with integrity that speaks not only to all of these various technical issues, but to the economic ones, and paints an accurate history of the broad subversion to the system that is actually going on here. To expose the giant PR psy-op if I can use that term.

Since we don't have a nice multi-million dollar stack of VC money with defined employees, it is harder for us in that arena. Nonetheless, it is obvious to me that especially here in these forums there are highly talented and skilled people with amazing ideas and understanding of these dynamics. If I were to walk in here with 100 million dollars, I could hire a team and we could decimate BlockStream in this PR power game. I do think there is a right and wrong answer here, and it is actually BlockStream who should be creating their own alt-coin.

So my consideration is how can we do that without the 100 million dollars? Am I just an idealistic fool? Is it hopeless?

Anyway--thanks for listening and solex thanks for the thoughtful response and to everyone for the creation of this forum, bitcoin unlimited, and all of the great things we DO have going for us.

Respectfully,
Dlareg
 
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freetrader

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Here is another thought I've been having for a while now.

Bitcoin needs a transparency / consumer watchdog initiative. An impartial organization that helps with shedding light on the commercial aspects. Sort of like "Which?" in the UK or "Stiftung Warentest" in Germany - I don't know what the US equivalent is.

It would evaluate Bitcoin-related enterprises and give ratings in various dimensions.

The Bitcoin Foundation didn't seem to take on this task, perhaps something like it has come up in the meantime but it's not come up on my radar.